Episode 17: Innovative Virtual Training with Simon Greany and Sam Windsor

Kyle Roed: 0:00

This is the rebel HR podcast. If you're a professional looking for innovative thought provoking information in the world of human resources, this is the right podcast for you. Alright, rebel. Today's show, we've got a couple of wonderful guests. I have Simon greeny and Sam Windsor from elusive.lucid.is, an organization that helps organizations respond to change more quickly by giving everyone the power to produce and manage effective digital learning, which is a hot topic, obviously, in today's environment. We are joined today by the wonderful, Molly badass. So a big thank you to Molly for joining us today and helping co host So welcome, Simon and Sam.

Simon Greany: 0:54

Thank you guys. Pleasure to be on your show.

Kyle Roed: 0:56

Thank you. Good to be here. Thank you for joining us, this topic really spoke to me. And I really am excited to hear a little bit more about how you are pivoting during COVID, as well as leveraging some of the digital tools and resources that are out there. So why don't we start off Simon, if you can just tell us a little bit about you and elucid at Of course

Simon Greany: 1:19

Yeah, so I'm one of the cofounders of Elicidat. So we're a cloud based elearning authoring platform, we make it easy for large organizations to train all of their employees online. So our vision is to build more successful more ethical businesses through people centered training. So for us, it's about a really positive effect of technology, helping people learn, transform, and change. So the way we do this is to empower anyone in an organization to be part of a process, having knowledge. You know, there's people all across organizations and where they're particularly globally spread across vast territories, who have something to share, which could benefit other people in that organization to do something better or more efficiently. So enabling l&d teams to bring that that knowledge in and make it shareable with others. So it's about bottling up knowledge, sharing it with someone else very easy. so that it can be done more quickly and at a huge scale. So we specialize in scale, we're supporting over 17 million learners, and working with organizations that are working with 10s of thousands of employees. So you asked, how are we pivoting? I think for us, this is more like our moment are calling, you know, the moment that we are fighting digital learning, and there's now a huge surge in demand for that in organizations, where we've seen overnight, things have been changed, you know, change dramatically, you know, we had many customers who were still using predominantly face to face training methods. And that has had to change overnight. So we've seen people rescaling upskilling, we've played our part in that we we've had a lot of interest in a program, he ran to give away free training support for face to face to rescale. And big become digital online training experts. That's the kind of that's our kind of moment, right now during COVID to really support people to do things a different way.

Kyle Roed: 3:24

That's great, Sam, what is your role with the lucid app?

Sam Winston: 3:27

So I work with silent in product marketing. So what really closely with Simon is our Chief Product officer. And I've been released after three years, but I've been in the learning industry for about eight years now in a variety of different roles, and often working directly with customers. So got a background in customer success, and also product management, and for agencies as well. So and yeah, I come I come at it with a real sort of customer angle and sort of have, you know, like to learn from the people that we're working with, and sort of their strategies for, you know, effective digital learning and, and know, I've sort of taken that knowledge from the sort of my years in the industry of now, focusing on my product marketing, well, looking at that for how we can look to the future and help other organizations do similar things by taking those learnings from those direct experiences customers I've had in the past and helping other people replicate those successes. And so yeah, I'm in the product marketing space, they've got a background working directly with customers and sort of get getting into the nitty gritty of and these strategies and things like that.

Kyle Roed: 4:33

So do you have to customize all of the learning and development? Do you have kind of a, you know, a catalog of trainings that an HR practitioner could just go grab or how do you how do you approach that?

Simon Greany: 4:46

Yes, it's a good question. I mean, our sweet spot is really empowering, the kind of embedded knowledge in organizations that is kind of key to the way they operate. So that that's Not off the shelf, you know, you can't buy that in. It's not on Google either. You know, we see a lot of people in organizations reporting that Google is often the go to, to find the answers that employees need. But the answers inevitably aren't there, especially if it's an organizational kind of piece of knowledge. So for us, it's about the kind of knowledge that sits in that organization, how do they do things in a way that is culturally, part of the way they operate? The way that they've developed processes, which gives them a competitive edge? And how can those things be really bottled up and shared with others? So you know, some compliance topics as well, you know, that's a very staple part of what people would use a loose adapt for. But it's those organizations that really want to put that across in a more personalized way, which expresses how their organization needs to comply. So you're not just kind of saying, looking at kind of those kind of really bad kind of versions of E learning? Where is it I stock photo of someone that bears no resemblance to anyone in your organization, following a process, which is just not something you do, you know, so, you know, I think real success of digital is, is a more personal experience. And so, we enable these organizations to kind of think about learning and training as part of a brand and the employee, you know, experience of how they support staff. So, so we don't provide any kind of pre built content. But what we do do is embed expertise in the design that we know works through our own research. So we have like wizards, which help people compile learning training that we know will be more impactful, by the way it's asking them questions. So we are not a company that does PowerPoint import, you know, we don't just take on a real world thing and transform that. And I think, you know, you see through COVID, that is many organizations approach, you know, I'll just stick what we did in a face to face training workshop online in the PowerPoint, but it's a totally, you lose all of that experience that you'd have in a training room. And, and it's, it just kills it. So for us, we don't allow that, because it needs to be done differently. And it needs to be done quite simply and effectively. And so it needs to be thought of in a new way. So we force people to think about how they can have a real impact on people, and how they use their time, most effectively. So our tools make it really quick and easy to develop that that content. But it's kind of got that embedded design that we we kind of add to it, the secret sauce.

Kyle Roed: 7:36

Interesting. So you mean I shouldn't just send out a YouTube link and tell people to watch the video?

Simon Greany: 7:44

It depends, it depends what the YouTube link is, I guess. Yeah. And how relevant is Yeah, I think there's, I think some of the, the content curation can be really effective. If that content is absolutely what that person needs. I think if they're finding a random YouTube clip to vaguely support the areas I need to learn about, then that's where it gets risky, I think for the organizations, they are literally in control of the the employee experience and the the knowledge that they need to foster to be successful,

Molly Burdess: 8:15

ugly, gamification, or is it? You know, can I come in as an instructor and and talk to my team,

Simon Greany: 8:24

you probably we support asynchronous learning, development. So these are, you know, you produce a Dante digital experience, which is tracked and hosted so that people can access it when they want on demand. So it's not a kind of a, you know, it goes alongside other sort of blended learning experiences and facilitation. But it's a standalone experience. Yeah.

Molly Burdess: 8:49

From the learners perspective, what changes? Have you noticed now that everybody is pretty much doing everything online? Everything's virtual? Have you noticed any difference that the learner needs? pre COVID verse we're at today?

Simon Greany: 9:03

Well, we notice we collect a lot of data, we also have 17 million learners, we have a huge number of people all the time using the system. So we do get some quite interesting data insights. We did notice that just kind of post lockdown kicking in for Europe and America, there was an increase in what people were learning being trained on. So there was a moment where people were using that time, maybe they were on furlough, or being retrained to do something differently, because of the quick changes that happened. So I think it's so interesting to see how, you know, organizations have been forced into it, you know, as the kind of scale we're talking about, you know, organizational change, a huge scale overnight, you know, this, that's kind of unprecedented. So, we've seen that kind of, you know, training can help support that gap and that journey. So that that was something that we saw we've seen a trend anyway, have to getting shorter. So, you know, we're advocates of not building long digital experiences, they should be broken up, blended with other things. And given the space they need. So we always advocate for less than 15 minutes, you know, TED talks and a lesson, you know, around 15 to 16 minutes for good reason. And we've certainly seen that the trend is going down in terms of the time that people spend on digital learning experiences. And that's been more of an ongoing shift. Another shift going to mobile, you know, we've had for years, you know, this kind of shift to mobile learning that we see in organizations, it took a long time for that to catch up. But we certainly see now that that is a growing trend. I know, in some states of America, that's limited by the laws, which is, you know, can be frustrating, but you know, that that's another sort of movement we've seen, yeah.

Molly Burdess: 10:58

a whole nother topic, let's say,

Kyle Roed: 11:01

yeah, that,

Molly Burdess: 11:05

no, we don't want to put anybody asleep, I

Simon Greany: 11:09

think, you know, for, you know, also just kind of the digital does present those opportunities. Carl, at the beginning, you were saying that, you know, there's, there are a number of challenges and unfortunate things about the current situation, but also some opportunities to do things differently now. And, you know, the way we use people's time to, to learn, develop, and to be really kind of clever about that you that time is an opportunity, I think now that we can really kind of build on so that we're, you know, not just going online and doing it very long, in a presentation for a couple of hours, you know, is that ever actually been that valuable? Anyway, you know, we can really ask some of these difficult questions now and challenge things and look at the ultimate way of doing them.

Kyle Roed: 11:52

So I really burst in my bubble here. Eight, our orientation slideshow was really great. I thought, then, you know, everybody loves PowerPoints,

Molly Burdess: 12:02

you know, when you when you bring a new employee on and shove them in the closet with a screen and say, Okay, here's your videos, good luck. Aha,

Kyle Roed: 12:12

my favorite is the sitting there, like forcing them to sit there and like, read the handbook, and then like reading a policy to them, and, and then, you know, the ultimate goal, the goal for an HR person is just make him sign that acknowledgement at the end, that we covered it, but it's, you know, what are they retained from that, almost

Simon Greany: 12:33

put your finger on this, this does fire me up. I mean, this is kind of, I've been in industry for years, and I think there's a kind of a chucking a bucket somewhere. And ticking a box is so unfair, you know, it's not I was asked to do a project years ago, where an organization was doing that, and that, you know, that they know, on Reddit, and people tick the box, and therefore, it was just a shifting of responsibility. And, you know, the way we re engineered that was to distill this book into a game, and, and use humor. And it went viral in the organization. So for being something where they were the recipient of being bashed over the head with this book, they actually started to share this thing about the the golden rules of health and safety in the organization, you know, it was actually something that people were talking about, and wanted to do. And, you know, that was a quite a turnaround. So it can be done.

Sam Winston: 13:28

I think we can switch off learners as well, like, if you're showing them as an expectation for them, just to read something and tick it off. And Mark is as done, like, if I think back to my own experience, when a really long time ago, when I was a learner in sort of, you know, part time college, and having to take to new learning. Like, you just need to get to the end and make sure it's completed and get out and, you know, help help customers. And I remember thinking at the time that, you know, does this organization actually care about training, because if an organization has something that's really personal to the learner, and really, you know, it's going to help, then it's going to make the learner feel that they're actually, you know, that organization is spending money and time and effort to make their experiences an employee better. And so I think it can be, you know, a turn off for the actual people that consuming the training as well. So it is important to, you know, get it right, which is why these stats, philosophy is all about people centered, and enabling organizations to make it really sort of personal to the employees so that it can actually make a difference their day to day.

Simon Greany: 14:35

Yeah, I think some that's good point. And, you know, some organizations can get really scared about personalization. You know, there's it's been a kind of growing topic in the industry for years now, you know, need to personalize but it can sound so intimidating, but there's some really easy ways of doing that. And it's about kind of breaking down audience to different groups. And just kind of thinking about how you tailor that experience for those different people accessing it. And it can make a huge difference, not only in them being more engaged, but then also there's just how much time they're spending on it. Because some, some groups may not need to go through the same detail. I think with a lot of these things, you know, and people are going new to digital transformation, it can sound really scary, but it's actually if you break it down, it's it's doable. And it's and it's better if you get it, right.

Kyle Roed: 15:28

Yeah, I'm curious. So my organization is an international organization. And so not only do we face the challenge of just geographic spread, but we also face the challenge of cultural differences, language differences, different learning styles, how do you approach that complexity and diversity within organizations,

Simon Greany: 15:49

we obviously this is something we specialize in. We have in our own platform, we have, you know, localization technologies, so for languages is one element of that. But then also adaptations to, to change it for different parts of the organization. So we've had an expression being used now in organizations, which is interesting, it's called connectors. So people at a regional level, adapting what's come from the essential l&d HR, in the business, and adapting it for these different parts of the business and territory. So you have a lot, which is core to the main version is going out. We call it variations, you don't have these variations on that the main version that sits in the middle. And so those versions can be tailored to territory level. So sometimes that may be to take into account differences in the law, or how they, you know, change the way that they operate in the territory. It could just be visually how you're kind of recognizing an environment that's like, you're the one you work in day to day, making kind of authentic, you know, I think there's some people think of E learning as being needing to be very slick, but it's kind of good if you can use pictures that look real. And like the environment you work in and not have a you know, you don't kind of cheesy kind of image library, in a way even worse, clipart

Kyle Roed: 17:23

clipart? Yeah,

Simon Greany: 17:24

just don't get me started on that.

Kyle Roed: 17:26

You know, I've may have used that once or twice in my mind. I think one of the challenges, from my perspective, at least in my background is I went to school for business. And I didn't major in learning and development or adult education. But in our role, we're expected to understand the ins and outs and set up training and make sure that our employees are retaining knowledge and understand the expectations. And a lot of times, I think a lot of us kind of fly blind, and are just doing our best to try to make sure people get it. And so we, at least myself included, that means I guess I should throw together a PowerPoint slide. Or I should go by this packaged sexual harassment training, because it's, it's something that I have to do in the state of New York. You know, it's those types of those are the types of decisions that are made. So what advice would you have for somebody who's maybe not a learning and development professional, but is expected to put a program like this together?

Simon Greany: 18:30

Yeah. So because that's a really good example. Thank you for your honesty. Can I ask you what drive you there to go to the off the shelf? module? You kind of called out there? What What would be your motivation for doing that?

Kyle Roed: 18:42

time? Yeah. It's not just lack of time are available resources to invest in in a, you know, full scale bespoke customized training course?

Molly Burdess: 18:55

Yeah. I mean, because we are not the experts. So hopefully, we're picking something or somebody that is,

Simon Greany: 19:02

yeah, right. That both brilliant examples of what that you know, what the challenges are and what we respond to. So you're not the experts. You don't have the time. And it is difficult, you know, creating good e learning in the way that we're describing it is, is is hard and to date is required experts. So for us, we are taking on some of that design legwork to do the heavy lifting of the design. So that it's about then connecting experts with the tool to share that knowledge. So we call it Center of Excellence. So in the case here to address the challenge of time, and expertise, you could commission and bring in your legal department to put the content into a lucid chart. So it's a way of of quitting and collaboration so you can get what you need, but In a way, that's not just having the book thrown at you say not those examples earlier on where you are then just left with the book and the, you know, the chatbox. But it's kind of encouraging is asking questions of the person who's contributing, to give you something that's useful in HR to then be able to share with others. And you know, the time invested, though, is worth it, there's a much better sort of legacy than that can carry forward and organization is more personal, more relevant, more engaging, but that you also own and can maintain yourselves.

Molly Burdess: 20:33

One thing I learned very early on in my career, not I didn't learn it. And an easy way, right, is when you bring in an expert trainer is not to align them and prep them with the culture of your organization. Just be very clear about your expectations, but also what the team needs to get out of it. And then making sure who's up for training knows enough about your organization to make it relevant. And I think so many times that's what a lot of people miss.

Kyle Roed: 21:01

And past company, I've had companies, large learning and development teams, and in some of those, you know, really critical departments. But when, you know, maybe we're sitting in a training, and clearly one of the participants doesn't trust that that person knows what they're talking about. And it just becomes, you know, painful for the trainer, because they typically, a centralized resource maybe isn't connected with that specific location, or not connected with that specific learner. That it just it gets kind of ugly. A great point, Molly, it's got to be for the right audience. It's got to be intended for the right audience. So

Simon Greany: 21:43

yeah, that's, that's I mean, it's. So what we sort of see is this kind of this move from sort of decentralized, l&d HR, to kind of a form where it's sort of centralizing the remit of what needs to happen in our organization to perform better to develop whilst then going back to be able to, you can decentralize things by enabling these experts to come in from across the organization and be part of this, this collaboration. So we call it Center of Excellence. And that's not meaning that the center of of the organization is the center of excellence, it means that they are empowering and bringing in people from all over the organization to be one big Center of Excellence. So it's about a kind of a huge collaboration opportunity. So that you can do is, as you said, make it relevant, and make sure that the the white people are contributing to something that's going to land with those audiences. So that you are then kind of a guardian of quality change, and commissioning, you know, what needs to happen around the organization to, to foster development to people,

Molly Burdess: 22:46

one of my main concerns with everything going on is as organizations start to open back up, and time and money is limited is that learning and development is going to be one of the first things cut? Are you seeing that at all?

Simon Greany: 23:02

We are no, we're not seeing that. But what we do represent is actually a kind of a more cost effective way of training to the alternatives. So we are not affected in that way. I think you know, that. I think now clearly organizations, every across everything an organization needs to look at how they do things more efficiently. So our product is definitely about a more efficient way of training people at scale. But then also the opportunity to do that better. I think we talked earlier about, you know, where there's some opportunities arising at the moment, there is an opportunity right now to think Yeah, okay, this digital transformation that's going to be maybe thrust upon us in to this extent. But, you know, here, we have a way now that we can teach everyone asynchronously, we can dramatically reduce the cost per head of training, I mean, you know, we're talking like cents rather than dollars per head. So it makes it more available to everyone in that organization. So actually, what you see is, is an efficiency, but then an opportunity to make sure that everyone is supported well. So that's why we you know, the quality is important to us and the way we support customers. Because if you're going to do something more cost effectively, it has to work.

Molly Burdess: 24:22

I'm glad to hear that's not really I mean, I personally think there's no better time for an emphasis on learning and development right now. I mean, what we're seeing is there's a lot of burnout happening, right, a lot of employee burnout, a lot of mental health issues, like people are struggling and I think the more you can teach them and keep them engaged and keep them motivated to learn and do new things. I think the better for not only them personally, but also the business and the culture of the organization.

Simon Greany: 24:52

Absolutely. Yeah, not sure. I mean, I think because of that level of change, we're saying that is the amount of rescaling new procedures that people are following. With social distancing, you know, it's just so much that organizations need people to know right now. And you know, there's no other way to do it than to kind of offer learning and development. So, you know, our sense is that this it will, it needs to be invested in by any organization that wants to retain people and develop their workforces. We've also had, you know, we've had some interesting data about customers seeing that learning is, correlates with engagement and retention of staff. So, you know, seeing something, you know, very interesting data around that as well about the benefits of supporting people in that way. To answer your question more directly, we don't have any kind of sense that the amount of learning or training will will, will go down. But we are mindful that people need to think about how they do it more efficiently. And effectively.

Kyle Roed: 25:54

That's really interesting data that you're seeing some of these trainings be connected with retention, and engagement, and some of those factors. And I think about, you know, an employee's experience and their perspective, when you're investing in training, you're investing in them, and you're giving them time, resources, you know, you're paying for this training, clearly you care about it, but they're also gaining a skill set. And I just think that as, especially as we've gone digital, in a lot of our work processes, we've got to try to stay connected with each other. So if you don't have this, this type of connection, and you don't have clarity on setting employees expectations, help helping them understand more about what your goals are for the organization and how they impact that in their job. You know, perhaps it's compliance training, but even if we can help people understand why the compliance training is required, sometimes, we asked that question, as well. But, you know, if you can invest in people, I just think that they're, they're going to invest in you, right. And so I think it's, it's a critical thing that we can't, we can't lose sight of, even though we are facing budget pressures, as we face a potential, you know, continued global recession until a vaccine is developed, right? I mean, it's, it's something that we've got to we've got to pivot into so that we can, we can actually thrive as organizations through the pandemic, as opposed to just try to survive. I took that quote from Mali from our last episodes, that's that was your face right now?

Simon Greany: 27:35

I always wonder like,

Kyle Roed: 27:38

I'll try. I'll let you trademark that one. Molly. Can you provide me an example of an organization and you don't have to name names, but just an organization that maybe came to you and said, I am struggling in this area, and I need help to build this? What does that look like? And you know, give me a give me a story of, of somebody that's used your program for success,

Sam Winston: 28:01

one that always jumps out when I get asked by students from my days in customer successes, and we had an organization come to us with about two years ago now, actually. So it was obviously before COVID time and stuff like that. So their challenge was related to the current climate that their challenge really was all about sort of what we've been discussing regarding Center of Excellence. And that theme, which is a big sort of messaging point, first at the moment, so that in that organization in particular, they had multiple different tools that they were using delivery, learning they were doing, and training in all different ways across the business. It wasn't very centralized at the l&d team didn't have much control or awareness of what was happening in different regions, different departments. And the organization itself was is a really huge organization, talking hundreds of thousands of employees, based in multiple countries. And really, they came to us with the challenge of, we're looking for a tool that will work across our whole business, we want something that's designed for an organization, an organization that's as big as ours, that can scale with us, as we grow, and a tool that we can sort of open up and feel confident and you know, trusting in terms of letting others in the business contribute to developing training. So it really aligned with obviously our sweet spot in terms of our product offering. And an organization. Yeah, they came to us with, you know, quite a disjointed, sort of disconnected, sort of, l&d environment and, and through sort of their onboarding with us, we did lots of training and services with them to get them up to speed with how they can use Elisa data as part of their, you know, solution, how they can go out of business and bring other teams on board with them as well. And, and as a big sort of change management piece that we had to sort of work through with them to help them to enable them to then enable their own teams as well and sort of filter down the training that we do get people on board because we often find with customers as well. You know if that particular moving from one technology to another, there can be some resistance. And there can be, you know, a bit of anxiety and people a little bit scared about, you know, changing to, to a new tool when they, you know, they've been using something else for many years. So, our, our approach with those types of customers in those scenarios, and with this particular customers, is a really sort of, yeah, partnership led approach, we like to think of ourselves as long term partners with our clients, rather than just selling them a piece of software. And, you know, that comes down to, you know, weekly meetings and quarterly business reviews, and being really sort of getting lots of handheld support right at the early stages. And really helping them map out a strategy and a change management program to ensure that the rollout of a business wide enterprise tool is going to be successful. And, and the results that we sort of saw with that client was, you know, high adoption. And so, those different teams came into lucid and started using it and delivering training programs pretty quickly. And, you know, they, they saw an increase in learner satisfaction as well, one of the things that they were doing was, and sort of just really quick snapshots, you know, one to five ratings after a training program, on their learning management system, and they saw that illusive content was getting higher scores and higher engagement. And, and it was really, by working closely alongside them and sort of calling out those little successes along the way that it was like a snowball effect, because others in the business wanted to get involved, they want to use it for their own team. And it made that central team that we started working with at the beginning, just look really good. And, and, you know, look like they were the center of excellence, you know, coming back to that theme. So that's the that's the customer example, I always like to jump to that challenge was, you know, in a nutshell, how can we do this at scale? How can we make it efficient? How can we have oversight and sort of, you know, know, what's going on in terms of training across our business, but also empowering those divisions and those teams that are, you know, excited about training and want to keep up that momentum and sort of that by and how can they balance those two things and not put them off by just mandating a whole new technology stack?

Kyle Roed: 32:15

Well, we need all the help we can get an HR this year. Yeah, great, great content, I'm really excited to check out the tool. For our listeners, we'll put the link to the website in the show notes. And, and you know, they can, they can check it out. But really, really innovative. And I think critical type of approach, and especially right now in today's world. So we're gonna we're gonna shift gears into the rebel HR flash round. So get ready, it's going to be really, really challenging, hard hitting questions. And, you know, we're gonna put you on to the white hot spotlight. So, Simon, we'll start with you. Question one, what are you reading right now?

Simon Greany: 32:57

I am reading we are team we have a one day a month of learning at least that we've valleys alone. kasher, we're learning organization. So we have this day. And one, the book we're reading at the moment is called how people learn. Designing education and training, it works to improve performance, as asked by Nick, Nick Shackleton Jones. You know, he sort of challenges the way we think about this. And, and it's quite provocative kind of in the way he writes. So it's like, it's an interesting book, and maybe with rebel HR, you know, it's in the theme there. So I'd recommend that, but we're still looking at that at the moment, reading it and comparing notes as a team.

Kyle Roed: 33:36

Question number two, Simon, Who should we be listening to?

Simon Greany: 33:42

Cola, you're doing a podcast series called learning at large. And so I explore in that podcast, the challenges of supporting organizations to enable people to learn at scale. In one of the episodes, I spoke to a person called Daniel hunter who's a global Training Manager of 350 dot org. So they are a campaign Action Group around climate change. And what was really interesting about that conversation was how he manages to motivate people to want to do something. So there's a lot of kind of stuff in there. What they do is a campaign organization about kind of group, you know, mass protests, how you create movements of people. And I think for you know, what I look learn from that it was so kind of, outside of what we would normally be looking at in l&d, but so relevant, you know, how do you get lots of people to really care about something and do something about that? huge scale. I mean, we're talking like in one of the examples he shared over a million people. So Check that out. I mean, this is a good podcast is one of the only ones I did. But I think for me, it's quite memorable and it's quite interesting. Take Take on things.

Kyle Roed: 35:10

Perfect. Yeah, we'll put the we'll put the link to the learning at large podcast in the in the show notes as well so that our listeners can can check that out.

Sam Winston: 35:18

Sam, my go to for this as always, Josh Bersin. And so a lot of your listeners probably be familiar with Josh bass. And he's a sort of a an industry analyst. And, yeah, he's someone who always makes me sort of sit up and listen when I see you know, his posts on LinkedIn or on Twitter and things like that. So I really respect the stuff that he publishes and his insights

Kyle Roed: 35:38

on things. All right, last question. This one's the hardest one. So Simon, how can our listeners connect with you?

Simon Greany: 35:45

Yeah, I mean, probably the best way for me is on LinkedIn. I'm on LinkedIn. Simon greeny gra ami. I do post on there. But I'm also happy to connect with anyone that's listening. I've got a Twitter account, but don't even go there. I'm updating it.

Kyle Roed: 36:01

Sam, how can our listeners connect with you?

Sam Winston: 36:03

Yeah, exactly the same LinkedIn and Sam Windsor, you'll find me on the release it out to get a link and definitely the best way I did have a Twitter account up until very recently, I've gone on over a social media detox, actually. So yeah, link is the one that's still active. And I'd be happy to connect with any of your listeners that detox That sounds good. Right now. We're in the middle of the 2020 election. And

Kyle Roed: 36:27

so a little bit into place. One of the things

Sam Winston: 36:31

that was one of the things I

Molly Burdess: 36:33

think more people need to do that in this world.

Kyle Roed: 36:38

Yeah, we'd probably be a lot happier if we didn't, we didn't have that noise in our lives. great conversation really appreciate the time and and the conversation, I think, certainly some things that that we can continue to focus on and improve through 2020. And it sounds like you might have some solutions here. That that we should all check out. So thanks for spending some time with us.

Simon Greany: 37:03

Right. Thank you for your time. It's been really good to meet you both and chat about these things. Thank you

Kyle Roed: 37:10

be well, cheers. I need to take a bite right now. All right. That does it for the rebel HR podcast. Thank you to our guests. Follow us on Facebook at rebel HR podcast, Twitter, at rebel HR guy, or see our website at rebel human resources.com. Use it opinions expressed by our podcast or listen, not necessarily policies or positions.

Jude Roed: 37:44

Baby