Episode 41: Gurpreet Kaur Mann, Part 1 - (The Gas Leak)

Kyle Roed: 0:01

rebel HR listeners. Thanks for joining us this week. Really excited about the podcast here we just wrapped a discussion with Gurpreet man who was absolutely wonderful to talk to and we covered a broad range of topics, and so much content that we are actually going to split this into two different shows. So this is part one of two. Gurpreet man. Thanks for listening. This is the rebel HR podcast. If you're a professional looking for innovative thought provoking information in the world of human resources, this is the right podcast for you. All right, Rebel HR listeners, I'm extremely excited to talk to our guests today. Gurpreet Ma, she is a HR superhero, a senior people and organizational design consultant helping executives and executive board members develop growth, build and expand people and process capabilities, create and drive a culture of continuous improvement. And she's just an all around cool person. Welcome to the show. Oh, thank you. Thank you. love having you here. And and I'm super excited to to get an opportunity to talk to you directly. I've been following your posts on LinkedIn. I appreciate your authenticity and and your approach to human resources. So So you are the HR superhero. I want to start with the origin story. So what is your superhero origin story?

Gurpreet Mann: 1:38

My background is actually an IT management, I have a degree in IT management. Plan B was HR. So I did a dress elective courses in Android, which I end up getting any joy certificate with my degree. I don't know why I, at a young age, I was still thinking about Plan B, because last thing you want to do is graduate and then you can't find a job and then go back. I'm not doing that guy. I'm not a school person. So long story short, I'm coming from a entrepreneur family, one of my uncle's had a need. So I end up going and working with him in California for three, four months in his restaurants, he owns four or five, six franchise. And I just really liked to start liking working with people. And also the challenges in minimum wage employees trying to motivate them to do their jobs and all that stuff, right? Like they're just a nice component elements and never a dull moment. And then when I came back to Canada, Toronto, four or five months later, I was like, you know, I'm going into HR, it's me, it matches my personality really well. And bonus, I got a 90 degree, right? So hey, what a unique combination with the two right like, and that's how I started my android journey, I have to give full credit of that spark or being me cons back to the one of the first bosses I had, who really loved me, be me. You know, he was a great mentor, a great boss. But he also let me be me in a sense that I was allowed to speak my mind I was allowed to add input. You know, as his assistant, he could have just dismissed me or, or anything, but he didn't. But also he'd lead by example, perfect example of how to be a great HR is to be out on the floor, not sit behind the desk, don't sit behind a computer, but go and interact with people talk to people build those relationships and solve problems right on the spot. And so yeah, that's how actually it began. And I loved it. I love Love, love. A dry. And in my first job is where I had a haha moment. You know, in university, you're working part time, but you also got school but you're not. You know, I've worked for 40 plus hours, right?

Kyle Roed: 4:11

Right.

Gurpreet Mann: 4:12

We're getting a wake up call when I'm working in my first HR job was like, holy crap, I'm at work 40 plus hours, I see these people every day. And then it's kind of like started to resonate with me. And then it's like, oh, my God, we're like, family. Because I'm seeing these people everyday. I'm probably seeing them more than I interact with my family. And then I was like, why don't we create that environment at work that we're family? Like, why do we have rules and policies? And, you know, why are we so like, like, you know, we're family. We're spending so much time together. And I think that's my first job gave me that inspiration, the power to create, organization, culture, environment, workplace where we feel family we are because we're working with one another 40 plus hours a day like art. My job was so demanding. I didn't have time to take breaks, like so much work even as a assistant. So I waited. That's where my origin of a dry passion started that. No, we should be building work environments. Truly as a family atmosphere, where we feel comfortable to speak our minds, we feel comfortable to be ourselves we feel comfortable and secure and safe at work.

Kyle Roed: 5:36

Absolutely. Yeah, that's an interesting that's an interesting context. So, you know, I but I can't help but think hotshot how many dysfunctional families are out there right now cuz I've been in those those situations in HR to where you've got, you know, everybody's got that cousin that

Gurpreet Mann: 5:59

I come from a dysfunctional

Kyle Roed: 6:03

Yeah, I, I, I'm with you. I think that that's, that's a, it's an integral part of building a culture you want to work out, right?

Gurpreet Mann: 6:11

If I have to sum it up, like, let's Okay, let's do yeah, you bring up a good point about dysfunctional family. Let's just remove that part and just say treating people like human, right, like wings. And one thing I never appreciated in HR. And I think that's what gave me another competitive advantage was I didn't come from a traditional HR background, I came from business, I came from it. My entire program is all about being analytic. And frigging a better way to do things be more efficient and leveraging technology, that I always had that analytical, analytical mind. So that data driven, not data driven, but just, you know, better ways of doing things. There's always a better way of something. But I never ever, as a human being in my entire career ever felt the need that I ever had to code a policy? Because then the other day, how many people actually read those policies?

Kyle Roed: 7:12

You know, oh, they have to? Yeah, nobody, nobody reads that stuff. It's like the apple. It's like the Apple iTunes agreement. If anybody ever read the Apple iTunes agreement before they kick, click Agree. No, no, you just you want to download that app. So you just click Agree, download,

Gurpreet Mann: 7:29

you know, let's make it even a little bit. A little bit down to phone getting a phone contract,

Kyle Roed: 7:35

right? You just signed your firstborn away to Verizon Wireless, but you've got that cell phone, so who cares?

Gurpreet Mann: 7:44

Right? And even if you read it, will you retain that information, because policy is a lot of policy. And in the end of the day, we're human beings, each situation, honestly, like shouldn't have policies, but I'm saying we shouldn't live by policies, we should just look at the other human being understand where they're coming from. And figure things out from there.

Kyle Roed: 8:11

Well said yes, you know, it's fascinating you came from it, because that was my my first real job was an IT project manager, mostly hardware focus, you know, wasn't certainly I'm not a programmer. But I ended up Yeah, I liked the human element of the role in the project leadership of the role as opposed to necessarily the actual tactical execution part of it. So I ended up kind of drifting into operations and then drifted into HR. I like to say HR found me I didn't know I was looking for it, but you know, that here I am. So interesting. So in your in your background as you as you started to, to progress through HR you know, a few years ago, you you really came into your own and branched off and and did a couple projects that were, you know, entrepreneurial in nature. So what what prompted you to go into the world of founding your own organizations.

Gurpreet Mann: 9:11

I was always an entrepreneur. And since I always knew I was gonna be an entrepreneur since I was 16 1617. Maybe I remember my chemistry teacher saying, who believed in chemistry you should go into chemistry is like no business. Going into my first boss, same thing. He always told me you're an entrepreneur, you're wasting your time working. And I said, No, I'm not wasting my time. I know I'm an entrepreneur. I'm no, I'm gonna start my own business. But I want to work first. And my dad's an entrepreneur, was an entrepreneur I came from I've been born or raised in an entrepreneur family. My dad started his business here in Toronto, in 1984. And a lot of my Family members have businesses. So I've been around business, and always knew I was going to be a business in business, I actually started a side hustle in 2007 2008, in artificial jewelry, selling Indian artificial jewelry, and leveraging Facebook, and business took off. And I had my sister and my friend as a partner. And it started it took off, it was doing great until I got married. And I had to get a divorce. So they made took up a hit. And I was like, but then I venture into a build my HR business actually in 2009 actually started building it. And my saying, when I say building, I mean started putting my thought process together, putting the whole planning aspect of a What do I want to do and a lot of stuff. But I never got clients in the sense, I didn't go looking for clients because all my jobs were really demanding. And then 2013 was the last time I worked into corporate and I just needed a break. And once my contract was done, I took a break my employer, my boss wanted me back and I said no, either hire me full time, or I'm done. Right. And like we don't have full time need, but we can use you again. And I was like no. And then my dad bought a travel franchise and a couple other franchises. So I was like, you know, I'm in between jobs, let me help you out while I'm looking for my next HR job. So I started helping him out long story short, I really enjoyed it, it was a nice break, to, you know, start something from zero, and build it and get it off the ground. So that was the travel franchise, and I was like, I'm gonna look I want to do to help him to travel, I had no interest in the UPS franchise. So build that I just the learning curve was so challenging was so exciting at the same time, the destinations in this world, and all the hotels and all that stuff. So it was very challenging. But it was a nice welcome challenge for me. At that moment, long story short, I learned so much that eventually then 2015 is when I was like, you know, I'm ready to launch my own HR consulting business. I've been working on this for years, it's now or never. So 2013 is when I decided to go full time in entrepreneur. And that's when I dig involved in multiple businesses, because my dad had multiple businesses, so I was involved with his businesses. And an event led me that and the reason I made that choice was I already already knew I was an entrepreneur, and 2013 was perfect, because no kids no husband, single, I'm only responsible for myself. So I can either continue working 12 plus hours in the corporate world on a salary, or I can do the same four plus hours for myself and have a potential of me making unlimited income on my thing. You know, don't get me wrong, like starting a business is a lot of work. And you're not going to make money right off the bat. Like there's so many obstacles and challenges, as long as you're a risk taker and willing to pursue your dream because that was my dream since I was 16. Eventually, it will happen.

Kyle Roed: 13:16

Absolutely. So So spend some time in HR now running your own HR enterprise. Tell me what you have seen over the last few years, I feel like there's been a little bit of change in the in the perspective of Human Resources you've been in the world for for a long time. Now, what kind of a shift? Have you seen in some of the work you've done in human resources?

Gurpreet Mann: 13:38

See, I work with smaller organizations, small, medium sized companies up to about 500 employees. So I'll just speak on them that what I've seen is, is in that their perspective is a lot of businesses and that probably can tie back to a little bit in the larger organizations that I've worked in two companies weren't really valuing HR. And it could be for various various factors or reasons. But I feel like one of the things that's pandemic has shed some light is the importance of having a strategic business partner. I see it as a business rule. I don't see it as HR, the way people have been describing, you're seeing your policies admin and all that stuff. It's a true true true business function. Because for the business to be successful and profitable, it needs the right people to be working in their organization. In the end of the day, a business can only make money based on who's working for them. So using the our superpower which is our brains, each business is relying on each individual superpower which is their brain and the business is making money from that brain, right? Like No, no rocket science there. But I think the fact that a lot of companies are starting either don't realize a lot of companies don't realize that their biggest asset is their employees. And how you can be profitable will really depend on who is working in your organization and then retaining it right. And I think this whole retention thing, a lot of business people don't get how much money is being lost when you lose the employee, and how much money is being lost When you don't have the the right type of talent working for your organization. So one of the shifts, I'm starting to see HR or overall and in businesses, the importance of people are starting to get emphasize more.

Kyle Roed: 15:49

Gurpreet I apologize, we have a gas leak in my building, so we have to evacuate the building. So I'm gonna stop recording and we will reschedule.

Gurpreet Mann: 16:00

Right, like, HR. Yeah,

Kyle Roed: 16:04

there we go. All right, I will connect

Gurpreet Mann: 16:06

Yeah.

Kyle Roed: 16:09

There wasn't a gas leak. But this is a great example of some of the things that HR gets to deal with on a daily basis. There was a suppose a gas leak in the building that I was recording in. Turns out that it may have just been an animal that passed away in the HV AC system. So in a great example of Murphy's Law, we had to stop recording the podcast. Thank you for your concern, everybody is fine, there were no issues, and Gurpreet was gracious enough to reschedule. So here is the continuation of the conversation with Preet. Thanks. All right, I can't wait to edit this podcast because literally right in the middle of our conversation, somebody was banging on my window saying that the building has a gas leak. So the good news is that your Preet has been gracious enough to join us again. So it might sound different because we're both about a month or so removed from our last conversation. But thank you so much for joining me again, we're going to rewind and thank goodness for editing I can post edit all this all this noise out. So but you know, PSA of the day. If there is a gas leak in the building, the most important thing is to end your podcast recording and go make sure you don't blow up. The probably the funniest part was so we thought it was a gas leak. And we brought the energy company and they came back and they said, probably just like a dead animal and an exhaust fan somewhere.

Gurpreet Mann: 17:43

happened at a big big bang company. But he was more on the IT side. I think the entire system crashed. It was about credit cards. I had a client that was telling me about this. And it ended up being on it ended up like long story short ended up being a dead animal. I know sorry, not a dead animal rights. Were chewing on the cables. Sure.

Kyle Roed: 18:10

Yeah, yeah, you know, this would be a great time to remind people you know, I sit in Midwest USA, and it's time to cue that banjo music. So you know, play the banjo music in your head for where I'm sitting at. But thank you so much for being gracious enough to join us again and for for taking some additional time out of your out of your schedule. So right before I hit record on the second session here, we were having a really great conversation about human resources in general career planning, you know, kind, you know, I kind of liken it to trying to figure out what you really, what do you want to do? What's your passion? You know, what do you want to do when you grow up? for lack of a better word? I always tell people, I'm I don't know. I mean, if you would have asked me 20 years ago, when I was in college, what's your career path? You know, where do you want to be five years from now? Which side? No, I hate that interview question. I mean, my honest answer would be like, I have no freaking clue. I just hope I get a job and I can survive and and you know, afford a car payment.

Gurpreet Mann: 19:15

But that's the truth even today that is like that. I never asked the question. I never understood why anybody would ask. But as I progress in life, in career, I found it to be such a not a good question to ask for various reason. And I could see this is because I've lost a lot of loved ones in a short period of time back to back and that's when my shifting, thinking shifted is like, why don't we ask, what's your plan for three years or five years? How about ask someone? What's the plan right now? Like, in the future? I don't I I'd never I hated that question. I took it out of my interview question. I never let hiring managers.

Kyle Roed: 20:06

Good for you. Good for you.

Gurpreet Mann: 20:08

Nonsense question. Who cares what someone's five year plan looks like?

Kyle Roed: 20:12

I'm in that same camp and you you articulated such an important point and something that I think 2020 and beyond is teaching us. Is is, so many people's priorities are so much bigger than what they do for a paycheck. Yeah, right. You know, your health, the health of your loved ones, you know, the time spent, you know, with others. And, you know, for a lot of people, they're going, they're forced to answer that question in authentically, because the truth is, in five years from now, they probably just want to be healthy and make sure their family's healthy and cared for right. But that can't they can't answer that question. That way. They have to come up with some bs like, well, I really hope I'm really helped by a minute progressively, you know, mobile role within your organization moving up and adding value to the bottom line. That's real. That's my number one five year plan right now. Yeah, that's just a BS HR response that, you know, checks the box. But yeah, But all kidding aside, I, I don't you know, I don't know HR is tough, right? I mean, the career of HR is really, really hard. Yeah, I was, you know, I was reflecting on our conversation earlier. And, you know, you were sharing some of your, you know, some of your thoughts on on HR, and just the, you know, the propensity to burn out. But I just think it's such a, it's such a taker, job, like, you take other people's concerns and challenges, and you bear those. And you're, and you're supposed to do that for every employee in the company. And if you don't have a healthy disconnection, when you leave the office at night, I think it can be toxic. And you know, it's interesting as soon as,

Gurpreet Mann: 21:59

because depending on who you are, and what situation you're dealing with that disconnect is really hard to make. Absolutely. And I always say this one thing I'm like, you know, a lot of people don't understand how emotionally draining any dribble can be. Depending on the capacity level of what you're dealing with, the situation's you're dealing with employee relations, component can be so draining, so draining, I've dealt with I think, my third year into my careers when I became a manager, yeah, within three years, I moved into a manager position. That's when I started dealing with a lot of heavy stuff. Of course, you're a manager, right? But I was shielded from all this stuff, because I had a great boss that shielded me from politics and all this other stuff. But when you're a manager, now you can't have that shield. And you have to deal with so much. I remember investigating this investigation hap on premises where an employee was being harassed by another employee. And this was an a small little town, smaller town. And she had like someone leave dead bird on her doorstep, emails and stuff like that, right? The only the only easy part was the fact that the person was doing it through company emails was really easy to trust, trace it back who it was, and it was pretty black and white. investigation, so it wasn't that long of investigation. But my boss, I remember telling me, Hager pre, you know, make sure when you leave the premises, no one's following you. Make sure you change directions, all that stuff. So she's giving me good advice. But it's a small town, I moved and relocated to a different place in a smaller town. I'm like, there's only two or three. I can take change, right? Like if I lived I lived in Toronto, there's many ways to come home, right? But that's like not I was investigating someone that's being bullied and harassed by employee to the point where dead animals being left on the doorstops. And I couldn't like it's hard to disconnect. Like, I can't disconnect because now I've been told also, hey, make sure that you change routes when you're going home. Like how are you supposed to disconnect from that? Like, make sure you're not walking to your car alone? So yeah, that was the first time I had to deal with it. And it's like, oh, my God, like emotionally You're so drained out. I remember, I've investigated sexual harassment cases. You know how, oh my god, that's like a whole nother level how draining that entire process and be and that's why I always say, a joy is one position and one profession depending on what you deal with, where we don't get enough recognition for the amount of stuff We have to deal with. And it can be so emotionally draining. Depending on the type of naturally, you're dealing with as well. Like I've gone through those emotions a lot.

Kyle Roed: 25:15

And it's hard, which would you consider yourself a? Yeah, absolutely. Would you consider yourself an empathetic person or

Gurpreet Mann: 25:23

I was gonna go to that night recently and discover that I am an empathic person I have this gift took me a long time to recognize, but I've been doing a lot of Reiki healing and all that stuff. So in empathetic, empathy, empathic people, it's a gift to have, you consume other people's energies, you can I can read, and you know what I couldn't understand why I can, I can pick up things before they happen, the energies and all that stuff, then it started clicking just recently, I'm like, Oh, this makes sense. Because I can read people's energies, you don't have to tell me anything I can read and tell you, Hey, this is now it doesn't happen all the time. But like, you can pick up an energy. And if you are in an M, path, person, it's really hard to disconnect that energy. Because you're you can determine if it's your energy or someone else's energy. And that's where I think a lot of times, I've struggled to like, if you are work you do, I'm a typer person, Kyle, like, if you started crying right now, I would start crying. I was on live with one of my sales coaches in a group called, she started crying, because of another person sharing something, I started crying, I don't even know this person. I've been like that. So it's little bit hard to if you are that person, is it a bit hard to it's hard to disconnect. But it can also be your great HR person. Yeah.

Kyle Roed: 26:53

And that's the, I think that's the such The struggle is most of us that end up in HR, whether we plan to or not, we're there because we have some gift like that, right, we can interpret how others are feeling or we can understand the ripple effect of this relationship and that relationship and when they don't work yet what that means. And in a lot of times, we're there to kind of be the conscience of some of the business leaders in the voice of truth than the voice of the the internal customer, so to speak, but but when you get into a situation that's extremely negative, and you are an empathetic person, it's really, really hard to disconnect. And even harder, when we may not be able to help the person like we want to, because of the role we're in, we have to play the neutral party and we have to toe the company line a lot of times and and while we may truly feel the pain or struggle or concern or frustration of an employee, we may not be even be able to do anything about it, because we couldn't validate that anything was actually happening through the investigation. And yeah, I just think it's such a that's such a burden that people don't i don't think people talk about it enough. And it's sensitive and hard.

Gurpreet Mann: 28:18

We don't. And that's probably one of the reasons I started vocally talking about all this stuff on each and every matter on LinkedIn. We don't do enough talking about, you know, hard situations, we tried to fluff it out. And it is hard. It's hard. And some of the things, you know, talking about it, or dealing with situations also make you realize if you are that sensitive, empathetic person, you will be a great HR, why you would be able to put some change, some processes are just ridiculous, for example, firing. Firing,

Kyle Roed: 28:58

you're speaking my language.

Gurpreet Mann: 28:59

Yeah, like firing. Why do we have to walk somebody out? Why do we have to stand there and tell them to pack their stuff out? It's the most embarrassing moment. And we stand there. I had one which was really bad. Like, I've been through it myself. And then I've had done it. I was like, No, this is totally wrong. We truly need to change how we fire people. Why does it have to be this way? I had a bad experience. I had one myself but I was the one being fired. And I was like, I would never want to do this. I never want to any bad situations. I like I personally dealt with I make sure that I never do it again. If I didn't like it happening to me. Why would someone else like terminating, terminating somebody and then we stand there and we tell them to pack their stuff up? And we walk them out and we just stand there I get the I get it. I get the pack the fact that you know property And protectionism. But there's a there's a way to terminate somebody respectfully without embarrassing them. And you can help them transition into another job somewhere else, the best way to do it is human. But a lot of times companies forget that aspect. So, because I've been through a few times, I've been on the end receiving part, and I've been on the side where I'm delivering it. And I was like, this is the most ridiculous process that needs to change. We shouldn't be terminating people like this, we need to do better. And I did develop a process better I went when a hiring manager comes to me and say, you want to terminate somebody goes through this whole process? Why why why why why can we work this? How can it be this, when it comes down to know this person? This is the best option, then it's like, okay, let's How can we do it in a way? that, yes, it's going to be hard for the employee to be here that we're letting them go. But we should also look at a plan to set them up for success, they can get a better job or find a job that's best for them, and helping with those current career transition services. There's a way to terminate somebody with dignity, I believe.

Kyle Roed: 31:21

100% Yeah. And I think it's, I mean, you said it, it's about being human and treating people that way. And there are I mean, I've been in those situations where there's been somebody who's been a truly toxic employee, and you're afraid that on the way out the door, they're going to take, you know, retaliation towards somebody. And, and I think, but those are definitely the exception, not the rule, I think for the most part. As long as somebody has been treated with respect to the course of their employment there, they should also be treated with respect on the way out the door, and the likelihood of them doing something, if they feel respected is extremely low. But it's Yeah, we always want to err on the side of Well, let's worst case scenario.

Gurpreet Mann: 32:08

But you know, what, Kyle, you know, when you're terminating a toxic employee, yes, you're going to take those measures, right, because you know, they're toxic, right. But when it's somebody who's non toxic, also, when we when you're deciding to terminate somebody, when you've never even had a discussion about their performance, that's where like, I step in, and say, No, you can't terminate this employee, you need to put in performance and improvement plan and so on, and so on. Right. And, and like those, like, I've been in that situation, where I was terminated within six months, in my role, I already knew I was going to be terminated because the history of HR person in that facility was six months. And right when I found that I was like, yeah, I'm going in six months.

Kyle Roed: 32:57

But maybe something going on.

Gurpreet Mann: 32:59

Yeah. Right. Like, like, when you get into the role people talk, right? And I was, I was like, Well, I'm the sixth or seventh person to like, yeah, within six months, they turn around, right? And I was like, Oh, I know. This was my first manager role. So I already kind of had a gut feeling that within six months, I'm going to my boss change. So that was the other like, red flag for me that Oh, I'm gonna not like red flag, but I just had this gut feeling because she's the one who hired me knowing I don't have a manager experience. That whole transition wasn't done properly for me. No, I never remember my boss never really talked to me never set up any KPIs for me nothing. And then I come back from vacation. I already knew when I was on vacation, I just had this gut feeling that when I get back, I'm going to be terminated. And exactly, that's what it was. And I will never forget this moment. And that's why I never ever do this for termination. First of all, I'm coming back from vacation, and you're terminating me 9am in the morning. Welcome back. And yeah, you could have just told me before I went on vacation, there's ways to communicate right? Coming in my my laptop's not on my computer wasn't working. I was gonna, I picked up the phone to call it and then I see my boss standing there. 90 of my office was right on the floor. Everyone thought 9am being terminated. I didn't ask question on line, great. I don't care because I already knew, like, for various reasons, but that's when I realized I'm like, okay, so I worked around the clock is a 24 hour facility. I worked around the clock, I delivered amazing results that no one's seen in that facility, because that was the feedback from other managers and stuff. I kept it I did a lot of work in six months. And I was just gone like that. Like that. Boom, gone. No explanation, no nothing. And that's when I realized I'm like, you know how many times that people have been told me needed for no reason. And we just like manager makes a decision and blindly lets them go, we play with people's emotions, I actually relocated, um, Toronto to another place. And within six months, you know, gone, which is fine because I actually wanted to move back into Toronto anyways, but till this day, I still remember the feeling feelings, right? We don't work human beings, we don't forget the emotions and feelings. So one of the areas that I feel a lot of companies, like I wrote this post today about this too, and yesterday, too, you know, people over the years, HR process or HR function has been overly complicated. When it's not, it's the the word human resources, the first word is human. It's all about treating people like human beings. I think a lot of people just think that there's this magic solution to taking care of your employees and all that stuff. And it's like, No, I was having this conversation with an HR person. I was like, No, the problem is we live in a world where it's all about trends, right? One day, it's this try next is this trend. You know, now it's diversity inclusion. Last time, it was company culture, employee branding only had a short live trend. But like, there's just random trends and trends, right, right. startup, startups started booming startups created this whole trend of free food gaming and all that stuff. And you know what I called it, I'm like, this is not a culture, what they're trying to do is keep you at work. Right? It works. Great. They provide everything for you. So you never have to eat. There was an amazing article written by a former Google employee who made Google her life friends, Google, because Google even provides the basic, basic life, stuff that you need on their premises, laundry, gem, everything, you name it right? Long story short, she was being harassed by this individual. And then he was now going to be her manager or leader. So that's when she started voicing. She didn't want to voice before because everyone's like, you have it best. You have a good life. You work for Google and all that stuff. Right? Long story short, so when she started to voice her concerns, automatically, what does any company do? They want to protect themselves? So they started to like, No, okay, you take a leave, we'll do the investigation. Okay, how about you do this and so she wrote this whole article, and she goes, you know, one thing I learned was, things weren't gonna change. But she goes, you know, what I made work my life, I made the company my life, but that's not how it should be. Your your life should be separate from your work and company. So she ended up leaving and went to another company, but she said the lesson she learned was that you your employer, should not be your family or should not be your life, your actual life should be separate. These are perks to have, but you should not be consuming them where you can't even balance and have a separation from employer and your actual life when she said that I was like, I've been saying this for years, that the whole gimmick around these startups and tech companies where they provide free food beds for you to take naps. And, and this, like I remember visiting Samsung's San Jose location, everything's there for you big facility. And they have like, I don't know how many restaurants, you name it, they have everything. I was invited by the VP. And I'm like, Who would want to leave I go, but that's the catch here. You don't want them to leave. And and Landon VP was laughing I'm like, Yeah, but that's the catch here, which which people not understanding, it looks so glamorous, that people can grasp that what they're doing is they making you they're making you think this is glamorous, but what they're actually doing mentally is making you not leave so that they're getting more out of you if you're consumed by company 24 hours and you're there you're not leaving you are gonna end up working you they're benefiting from it right? So it's sad how some companies will gimmick certain things but how employees can take it they cannot see beyond it. And I always tell them anybody and I know I made sure I and I'm saying this but at the end of the day, there needs to be a balance and and free food, free trips and all that stuff will not keep an employee with you. If you don't treat them good and treating good comes down to dealing with those hard situations when an employee comes and talks to you, or or launches a complaint against a manager, how are you going to handle it? Are you just going to shut them out? A large organizations do this the minute you launch a complaint about a manager, the first thing they're going to do, the manager is going to do is try to get rid of you. I've seen it multiple times. And that's the sad part. Right? That's the sad part. And now this goes back to what you were saying. There's certain elements of a drug that we want to do so much, but then our hands are tied, and I can mentally impact you a lot. You know, what's wrong? Yeah.

Kyle Roed: 40:35

Yeah, I've seen that. I mean, it's, you know, unfortunately, and I think this actually, this goes, goes towards, you know, any number of biases. But, you know, even in HR, it's, you spend more time working directly with with managers, typically than you do with with their direct reports. It's just natural in the role, they're required to talk to you because it's part of your job function versus an employee, who isn't required to talk to you, unless there's an issue. And so, so your, your natural bias in HR is to assume, okay, I know this manager really well. I trust this manager, because I work with them a lot when an employee brings something about that manager to you, your natural biases to assume that that employees full of it. Yeah, I mean, that's just, that's, that's how we're wired. As humans, the relationship with the greatest level of connection usually wins. And that's where, you know, that's where it becomes a challenge. And it becomes one of those areas where you've really got to be mindful of your preconceived notions and your assumptions. And, and you have to be objective. And when you're an empathetic and, and trusting individual that generally likes people. That's not easy. That's not necessarily a skill set that we cultivate naturally. But we're expected to do it. And we're expected to be the Yeah, the employee champion. And we're also supposed to run the Activities Committee, and, you know, and recognition platforms, right. It's just like, you do all these different things. Yeah. And you're expected to do them all great. And you end up doing them all. Yeah, you know, as good as you have the capacity.

Gurpreet Mann: 42:18

But how many HR people I forget recognize, right? Like, yeah, it Yeah. We you know, we champion all this recognition and all that stuff. We implement these things, because we're the ones on the front line doing all this stuff, but how many people actually get recognized?

Kyle Roed: 42:35

All right, that does it for the rebel HR podcast. Yes. Follow us on Facebook at rebel HR podcast, Twitter, at rebel HR guy, or see our website at rebel human resources.com. Using opinions expressed by podcast to listen doctors or physicians during this podcast

Jude Roed: 43:05

maybe