Episode 71: Keeping "Human" In HR with Patricia Karam

Patricia Karam: 0:00

So going back to human design where when I first discovered it, and I realized how much it helps me personally and professionally, I was thinking to myself, How can I implement this in corporate America or any corporate environment because I feel like this would be so helpful for individuals at home and at work.

Kyle Roed: 0:20

This is the rebel HR Podcast, the podcast where we talk to human resources, innovators, about innovation in the world of HR. If you're a people leader, or you're looking for a new way to think about how to help others be successful, this is the podcast for you. Rebel on HR rebels. Alright, rebel HR listeners extremely excited for today's podcast guests, we're going to be talking about something that we have not talked about before human design. And with us today we have Patricia Kay around. Patricia is the CEO and founder of Atlanta based mission recruit she's the driving force, introducing human design to corporate America. With more than a decade of experience working with Fortune 500 companies nationwide, she launched mission recruit with a vision of delivering best in class services by combining the sophistication of a large recruiting company with the heart and personalization of a smaller staffing agency. Her background in the industry started with corporate recruiting career global leader in the IT staffing industry, she's done national staffing positions in strategy and philanthropy. She's got a strong entrepreneurial spirit, as a result of her parents influence immigrants from the Philippines who taught her that life's most important lessons. And above all, the significance of giving back. Welcome to the podcast.

Patricia Karam: 1:50

Thank you so much for having me, Kyle, what a great opening.

Kyle Roed: 1:55

Absolutely. Well, I'm really excited for today's show. And we were we were having a discussion before I hit record. And I'm just I've got so many questions that we're going to get into. So why don't we start with kind of the big question. So help us understand what is human design?

Patricia Karam: 2:15

Great question. And I'm glad we're getting right into it. Human Design is a personality test assessment. So it's not like your normal Myers Briggs or anything like that. It is taking the eastern and western practices, principles and science and combining it to create your own personal human design assessment. And there are five types. There's generator, manifester manifesting generator, projector and reflector. And so I've intentionally partnered with an HR professional who specializes in human design, and she has experience implementing this in her corporate environment. So it's, it's something I'm so excited about. And it's one of our main pillars keeping the human in HR through human design. Yeah,

Kyle Roed: 3:04

it's so it's really interesting. So, so I had an opportunity to take the assessment, I'm looking through it, and I'm like, I'm just really fascinated about this, this approach, but But before we dive into that, I want to understand, you know, what led you to pursue this approach as it relates to recruiting, and, and kind of looking at, you know, individual's skills and strengths. Yeah.

Patricia Karam: 3:33

So when I first came across human design, after I understood what my design type is, which is a projector, everything in my life kind of made sense. So growing up, I was kind of seen as shy or introverted. With the whole time I'm just waiting for the invitation. It's not that I didn't want to speak it's not that I didn't want to raise my hand. The way projectors are as they wait for the invitation. And then also, just knowing when you're on track, or off track, those kinds of indicators made a huge difference personally and professionally. So I truly believe in human design, because it can help you individually working with other people working with your family. And so for me personally, when I'm on track, I feel success. So I feel like I'm being successful. When I'm off track. I'm better. And so once I realized that I was just thinking to myself, this would totally be so helpful in the corporate environment.

Kyle Roed: 4:36

Absolutely, yeah, it's okay, so let's dive into it a little bit. So this is the this is a new assessment for me and I'm first of all warning for everybody. I totally nerd out on this stuff like this is just really interesting to me and I got a student of psychology and so like the, you know, the DISC assessment and the predictive index, McCoy, you know, whatever, whatever else assessments you're using, they tend to be very, maybe not exactly the same but but very similar and approach and methodology. And this is not like that. So, so I'm looking through my, you know, my, my type. And I'm curious about, you know, the the difference between the types, and then how, how does that fit in the world of corporate America? Ah,

Patricia Karam: 5:30

that's a really good question. And you, you speaking about the other assessments, I also wanted to mention that this is not an assessment where you're answering questions, and maybe you're answering it because you know, your leader or company expects a certain answer, or maybe five to 10 years from now Your answers will be completely different. This is something that will be the same throughout your whole life, and you can't change the answers to it. But to answer your question, I feel like this is will be very helpful in the corporate environment, because we will start out we will do group sessions, like Team sessions for human design. And it will start out with a leader where they understand their human design and how the different types interact with each other. So maybe you're in a in a group meeting, and somebody's sitting back, not speaking up, and you're wondering, are they interested? Do they want to be involved, they could be a reflector, which a reflector by nature is there to observe and see everything full together. So it's just understanding the different types, generators, manifesting generators, and manifester is have all the energy they like to speak up, they're, you know, always doing things. So you are a manifesting generator. And it makes sense because you have your podcast, you are a leader, you do see the big picture. So I think it's just I think it'd be so helpful for leaders and teams to know and understand each other because, you know, somebody could say, oh, they're a projector. That's why we need to talk them and ask them for their opinion. That makes sense.

Kyle Roed: 7:13

Yeah, it's, you know, it's really interesting. And the way that the assessment works is it's based upon, you know, you can't fudge the answers. It's based upon biographical detail. And so, you know, there's not Yeah, there's, I think that was a really interesting comment that, you know, a lot of times we take these assessments, and we answer in the way we think that our organization wants us to answer those questions. And I distinctly remember, you know, it's, it's, it's interesting, I think everybody would agree that I'm, I'm an extrovert, I mean, that's just gonna, that's just who I am. But I remember distinctly, when I started taking these assessments, I assumed that people wanted me to be an extrovert, but but, you know, naturally, I do a lot of things that are very introverted, and, you know, but but my, my persona at work is an extrovert, you know, like, beyond, you know, off the scale. But I think it was a little bit of a self fulfilling prophecy, honestly, you know, early in my career, I told myself, I needed to be that to be a good HR person. And then I just kept saying that, and eventually I kind of became that. So what's interesting is that this is a, you know, this, this can't be a self fulfilling prophecy. It just is what it is. So,

Patricia Karam: 8:22

yeah, exactly.

Kyle Roed: 8:25

So I guess I want to ask the question, so as we think about our, you know, kind of team dynamics, and some of the things that you talked about, about how, how the different, you know, profiles interact, what that kind of sounds like, to me is, you know, similar to what we what a lot of the conversation is around the world right now about like bringing your authentic self to work and being being your true, you know, kind of your, your true self. So, is that really kind of what we're getting at here that people are who they are, as opposed to who you think they should be?

Patricia Karam: 9:03

Absolutely, absolutely. And I think another reason why human design hit home for me as an example, was early in my career and staffing, people would always tell me, Patricia, you're too nice, Patricia, you're too happy. And then I changed, I became a bi tch. I just completely changed my persona based on that feedback. And at that moment was the moment I started losing clients. And so it goes back to your authenticity. Once I realized my human design. I looked back at that very moment. And if I had been myself, I would have still been doing well and not losing clients at that point in time. So I think it's so true. You know, your human design type is who you are at home and who you are at work. And I think that this is a way to keep the human in HR in the corporate environment. What motivates people? What will motivate people from not leaving? You know, that type of thing?

Kyle Roed: 10:06

Yeah, that's really interesting. I think the other thing, you know, what you just described there, it's an interesting corollary, I'm looking at the different types right now. And the way that the the assessment comes out, it says, it tells you what you're motivated by. And it tells you, you're off track when and then it gives you an example. So yeah, so what you just described is, is essentially being off track then. Right?

Patricia Karam: 10:36

Exactly. I was better. So that's why I think this would be so helpful in the corporate environment. So especially leaders, so they can see when their team members are, you know, not themselves, or how to motivate them better. And also, you know, as a team collaboration, I feel like this is just a different way to collaborate.

Kyle Roed: 10:58

That's really interesting. So, okay, so let's, let's unpack this a little bit. So I know there's probably there's probably some people listening to this that have been through all of the certifications. And you know, they've heard all the, all the appeals. So So what do you say to the detractors that are saying like, well, this is just another personality profile? And, you know, we'll take the assessment, people think, oh, that's, that's interesting, and then shove it in their desk drawer and do nothing with it. So what, what's your response to that?

Patricia Karam: 11:27

Yeah, exactly. So I think that this has meant for people, this has meant for everyone, but if if there are people who are not as interested or excited about it, that's okay, I would just ask for an open mind. And if and if they're still not interested, then there will be people who are and that will impact them personally and professionally. And that's what's most important to me, is how we can impact people through human design. So yeah, but that's a really great point. And, you know, that's something that I am expecting some feedback in. So I don't think everyone will absolutely love it, knock on the door, and I say I want my assessment. But I think it's something that will truly impact the right people, if they do the practices, when they if they can be open enough for feedback and make changes as you go, if that makes sense. So it's not something where they have to practice. It's just something in their everyday lives saying, Oh, I think I'm getting better right now. Maybe I should do something else, and not be better.

Kyle Roed: 12:36

Absolutely. So just so I can maybe understand this a little bit more. So, you know, as I'm reflecting on human design it to me, it almost sounds like it's kind of a combination of like East Meets West, a little bit where it's like the kind of the energy and I don't know if this is the right term, but she and and then like the kind of the maybe the science of business and and and psychology and and, you know, kind of interpersonal interactions and things like that. So, you know, how do those two things come together? And how do you how do you? How do you bridge that gap?

Patricia Karam: 13:16

You know, that is a really great question. And that is, that's something that my human design partner can speak to better her name's Kasia. And I specifically chose her because she does have that experience with HR and human design and the science behind it. So I can't technically speak behind that. But that is a piece that I love about it, that I absolutely love about human design.

Kyle Roed: 13:40

Absolutely. So let's take a step back. And I'm just curious to maybe be a little bit selfish. And I have some questions about my profile. So yeah, can I ask you, okay, all right. Like I said, I like this stuff. So this is, so I'm, I'm a manifesting generator. And so as you as you look at like building out a team, and you look at like Team hiring, how do you how do you use this tool to structure Okay, I have two manifesting generators on a team. Can you have too many, you know, is are you trying to find balance? What what is kind of the what is the goal as it relates to this approach?

Patricia Karam: 14:23

So I think it's, I think it's healthier to look at human design at a current team dynamic, because I don't ever want anyone to feel like they're being discriminated against because there are too many manifesting generators or there are too many projectors. But I believe a nice balance is helpful. Sometimes when you can have you, for example, manifesting generator, two very strong people. Maybe if you understand that you're both manifesting generators, you can work together more collaboratively, but I don't think it's a pro or con. I think it's nice to have a healthy balance. If that helps, yeah,

Kyle Roed: 15:01

yeah. And then I think the other, you know, some of the other interesting things. So, you know, there's like, there's a leadership archetype, challenge solver. That's kind of cool. I mean, that sounds nice. I like that. And then there's a signs, you're on the right path and signs, you're on the wrong path. So we could talk about the right path. But let's start, let's, let's go negative here, this is an HR show. So a lot of times we're dealing with the negative side of it. So, you know, this, this spoke to me, this was really interesting. So, you know, it asked me the question, do I feel frustrated? Do I have resentment towards a project or a teammate? And what triggers the emotion? And then how, how can I pivot? So it asks me those questions, as I'm reflecting on the, on the survey results. And I think, what was interesting about reading this is when I am not motivated, it's because I'm doing something that I don't enjoy, which I think most people probably probably feel that way. Yeah, but my emotional reaction is frustration. And, you know, and in general, and typically at work, I can't show that. So I like, you know, it's like the you compartmentalize it, and then, you know, you have to get it out somehow. So, for me, it's like, compulsive exercise, or maybe a shorter temper at home with, you know, with the kids. So how do you how do you use this tool to help employees or, or teammates understand how to pivot?

Patricia Karam: 16:31

Yeah, no, that's a great question. And when it when it's them working on themselves, I think they should do exactly that ask themselves these questions when they feel like they're off track. But I think as a leader, I think this is so key in having an open office communication style, where people feel comfortable enough to tell you when they are frustrated, and how can they fix that we're dealing with a great resignation. Right now, of course, I think leaders should definitely focus on this, and understand their team and know when they feel like they're off track.

Kyle Roed: 17:12

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Patricia Karam: 19:49

Yeah, that's a really great point. And I truly believe it can because I think by having these conversations, understanding your human design and in the workshops kind of Tasha will go deep into this, what ways you can work with each other when you are off track and how to, to continue motivating through each individual's motivators. So I think that having this conversation will definitely help people be more open to each other and understand each other, and maybe keep help them put their guard down, honestly. And I think that's how it should be from the leadership, see, and also from the team.

Kyle Roed: 20:30

Good. So I'm curious to maybe step back a little bit and understand a little bit more about, you know, Mission recruit, and when you bring this type of approach into the work that you do there.

Patricia Karam: 20:45

Yeah, I mentioned we're crew, we are woman known and minority owned, certified. And our we have three pillars. Our main pillar is our bread and butter, which is staffing and recruiting. We have fortune 500 clients, medium sized clients. So best in class, recruiting is key for us. Second is placements that give back is our motto. We're very big on giving back. We specifically support Partnership Against Domestic Violence and Frontline response, which deals with human trafficking. So for every placement we make we donate $100 to each organization. And then our third pillar is exactly this keeping the human in HR through human design. And to answer your initial question. So going back to human design, where when I first discovered it, and I realized how much it helps me personally and professionally, I was thinking to myself, How can I implement this in corporate America or any corporate environment, because I feel like this would be so helpful for individuals at home and at work. And I think that, especially now, with the current landscape we're in with everyone being remote or not here, there. A lot of people are dealing with technology's issues, sickness, whatever, I think that this will help bring a team back. So at admission recruit, we offer people to purchase their human design assessment on the website. But we're really interested in doing workshops. So team team workshops in this can be all virtual for now until things kind of clear up, but Kashia will be the one leading those workshops where she will work individually with a leader, and then get the whole team together to do a whole team workshop where each person will receive their individual human design analysis. Cool. Yeah.

Kyle Roed: 22:48

Cool. All right. So. So we've talked a little bit about, you know, signs that you're on the wrong path, and I certainly, you know, can can relate to that. And, you know, it's interesting, if I reflect on, if I reflect on my career, there are a few situations where my leading indicator was, my would have been my fiancee at the time was like, you're miserable. Like, why are you sick? And, you know, I didn't even realize that I was just kind of plowing through, you know, your, you know, work, work. And it wasn't, it wasn't great, ultimately ended up changing companies and found something that was more enjoyable for me to do. But that makes sense as I think about, you know, the, the signs that you're on the wrong path, and, you know, kind of just how I'm wired. So let's, let's shift gears to signs, you're on the right path. So, okay, so as a manifesting generator, in your ideal environment, your team is reminding you when to play, and when to work, honoring, when you say no and trusting that when it's a yes, you're unstoppable, and everyone will benefit. Ultimately, you're thrive, you thrive when you are allowed to be in your own process. So it's really funny, because early in my career, and the this was a fortune, this was a fortune 50 company, like we were going through this leadership development class. And one of the things that they told me one of the biggest pieces of feedback is don't forget to have fun. Like, like, like, like, calm down, have a little bit of fun, like, you know, you don't have to like, you know, like, everything another way just to get something done. And, but that's like, that's just so it's funny that that's come up again, that your team is reminding you when to play. And when to work, but for me, like I and my friends think I'm crazy, but like for me work is fun. Like Like, this is what like I enjoy this like it's problem solving. It's like a big crazy Rubik's Cube and it's just you're just trying to put all the put all the pieces, you know in the right spot. Yeah. But it's never over. Right. So it's just like, I don't know, I kind of drive people crazy in that in that regard, but it's definitely more But I'm in the flow. You know, I definitely feel that so, you know, regardless of what your what your profile is, are there commonalities between the the different profiles? Like, you know, is that is? Does everybody kind of have the same satisfaction or the same feeling of contentment, whether on the right path? Or do people actually have different feelings when they're on the right path? By the profile type? They are? Yeah, I

Patricia Karam: 25:26

think people have different feelings, if they're on the right path based on your type. And, you know, that could look different for in that could look different in small ways. But I think that overall, everyone has different motivators.

Kyle Roed: 25:45

That's really interesting. I think that's one of my, my personal blind spots. Sometimes as I you know, I can assume that other people, you know, when when things are going well, they feel the same way I do about it. Right? Like, they get more excited. They're like, Yeah, this is great. Like, all this is a big hairy goal, but we're gonna do it. And that's fun. And like, Yeah, let's let's rah rah. And but I'm thinking about my personal team right now. Currently, they're not always as excited as I am one way. When we're tackling these problems of like, plowing through like, like, and figuring out solutions, and you know, there's, there's a little bit more skepticism, and they're not always on the same page. That's one of the things I struggle with as a leader sometimes. Is, is approaching that. So that that's a really interesting, interesting insight. So it's just so new, this is just a new kind of an email

Patricia Karam: 26:39

we need to connect you with.

Kyle Roed: 26:42

Yeah, absolutely. So and we'll obviously we'll have all the all the information in the show notes as well. So if any other HR professionals have any interest in this, I think, I guarantee there's going to be some that are gonna be really curious to, to learn a little bit more. So I'm curious. So, you know, your your focus on on mission recruit, and, you know, female leadership, philanthropy? What, what prompted you to, you know, to, to really work in a an organization that has those as the pillars.

Patricia Karam: 27:19

Yeah. So, I think that the 10 plus years and staffing I've been in, I've seen everything, what worked, what didn't work, what I think would be better. And after I gave birth to my third child, I turned in my notice, and I started mission recruit, and I haven't looked back, but I basically just implemented everything that I was passionate about, because it's something it's a company I created. And so why not bring in things that that I could make an impact. My intention is to be impactful, whether it is placing the best in class candidates at my client sites, or giving back to the nonprofits and definitely keeping the human in HR because I think now everyone being remote, we forget about that. And we forget about people have personal lives, and how do we help them? In the in the professional world to?

Kyle Roed: 28:16

Absolutely, yeah, it's, that's a, that's a really great point, I think, I don't know if you felt this in your business, but it but in, in the world of HR, I mean, it's like, it's almost like 2020 kind of woke up a lot of leaders that, that were surprised about some of the some of the challenges that their employees face or some of the, some of the, you know, the actual, like, real world started to trickle into the workplace a little bit and there wasn't this dividing line between, you know, coming into the office and wearing your business casual and you know, making like, completely non, you know, non impactful small talk by the watercooler to literally being in someone's home in a meeting and seeing their kid or their dog on camera. Or seeing that they're, you know, what, they were running late, they got three hours of sleep last night, they're still in their pajamas. You know, the accidental cameras that are on that shouldn't be on you know, it's it's like, oh, like, Yeah, we could probably write a an HR novel about all the Zoom mishaps. But I think what it's woken up, at least in in my organization is a little bit of a curiosity, and how do we, you know, how do we support our team where they're at? And then how do we, you know, it's kind of a slippery slope, like, it's like, we want people to be authentic at work to a certain point. We also don't want to be prying into their personal lives and be so focused on God. So I view this that, you know, to me, this almost sounds like this could be kind of maybe I'm meeting in the middle kind of an impasse.

Patricia Karam: 30:00

Literally, absolutely, because you know, I think about this, this age of mental health, and how it impacts people, people's personal life is showing up at work, and how can we help employees? How can we help teams? So you're exactly right about that. I feel like it is a really great

Kyle Roed: 30:18

middle ground. And I'm assuming that, you know, as I look at this assessment, and I reflect on my personal experience, if we tie this back to mental health in the workplace, if you're on the wrong track, eventually that's going to lead to burnout, and potentially mental health issues. If somebody does that over the course of their career, am I correct in that assumption?

Patricia Karam: 30:43

Yeah. And I think that human design helps with awareness. So people may not even realize what the core issue is. But if you think about these questions, then if people take the time, and they're open to being by themselves, and like really, truly reflecting, I think this will be so helpful. Truly.

Kyle Roed: 31:05

Alright, so. So we've talked about manifesting generators, because that's me. And I'm like being selfish and just asking these questions. So you are a you're a projector? And so you are, what is what is your what is your pattern? What is your profile? Yeah, so

Patricia Karam: 31:21

projectors are known to wait for the invitation. So for somebody to ask us our opinion, or somebody to ask us for help or to lead this. And then I am off track when I'm bitter. And I'm on track when I feel success.

Kyle Roed: 31:38

Interesting. So Jack, and I'm looking at it says motivated by finding patterns to optimize something that already exists.

Patricia Karam: 31:47

Exactly. That's why I created mission recruit. That's exactly what I was saying, when I was kind of going over the company and, and why I built it. It's everything that didn't work that I saw, and adding in things that I'm passionate about, and things that do work, and haven't looked back.

Kyle Roed: 32:06

Interesting. Okay, so do you mind if we want to dive into some of the other patterns because I have a feeling some of our listeners may find themselves fitting into those, those guys.

Patricia Karam: 32:16

And I also need to send you the link, because people can actually generate their own human design type by going to this website that I'll send you later, if you want to add to the show notes, and they could just kind of Google

Kyle Roed: 32:27

that. We will have that in the show notes as well. Perfect. Awesome. Okay, so we'll walk through these really quick. So, generators, what are what are generators,

Patricia Karam: 32:39

generators, that they have the energy and, and I have to refer, I have to defer to my human design partner Kashia. But generators, they have the energy they want to do they see what they want to do, and they do it. So they have just great energy to to implement, to do and to achieve. Got it. Okay.

Kyle Roed: 33:06

Next question. So how, how long have you been kind of doing this, this type of work with with corporations,

Patricia Karam: 33:13

staffing?

Kyle Roed: 33:14

Huge, like the human design, like kind of, you know, yeah,

Patricia Karam: 33:17

that's a really great question. I recently just relaunched our website last month. And so this is a brand new thing got the brand new thing that we are implementing, and I think we're gonna be doing our first workshop next month. Okay. Got it.

Kyle Roed: 33:32

Got it. Got it. Okay. So, what are you curious about as you as you kind of launched this and, and, and start to explore this in the corporate world? What are your words, your curiosity? Oh,

Patricia Karam: 33:45

I'm really, I'm very interested to see how it will impact people and the response. So I am expecting some people not to be so interested. But I'm truly excited to see the people who, who can recognize the areas that they can improve on and change just in everyday life. It's not something that they have to set time, time apart to work on. It's just something that they have awareness and then have intentions to improving. Got

Kyle Roed: 34:17

it. Okay. Okay, good. Yeah. Yeah, I'll be I'll be curious to see, I'm sure there's gonna be some skeptics. And you know, you have those anytime you do anything like this.

Patricia Karam: 34:27

So anything that's different, right? Absolutely.

Kyle Roed: 34:31

So do you have any, like a, like a target audience that you're that you're looking at, you know, is it you know, specific industry? Or are you viewing this a little bit more open?

Patricia Karam: 34:41

And it's to me, it's anyone and everyone, to me, you don't have to work in a specific industry. To me being a human is being a human and I think you can incorporate human design in your everyday life.

Kyle Roed: 34:55

Yeah, I'm just thinking I'm thinking, you know, the questions from My engineering team would be pretty plentiful, but you know, I know.

Patricia Karam: 35:05

It also. Yeah. Yeah, they're,

Kyle Roed: 35:08

they're gonna be sitting there going, Okay, what's the algorithm here? This isn't ones and zeros. This doesn't make sense to me. Right. Like, trying to bridge that gap. I could I could see that being a challenge with especially with kind of the corporate, you know, the corporate side of the of the coin. Oh,

Patricia Karam: 35:25

yeah. No,

Kyle Roed: 35:26

I know. Yeah. People are like,

Patricia Karam: 35:28

it'll be fun. It'll be a really fun team activity. Yeah.

Kyle Roed: 35:33

Yeah, it's, um, you know, it's, it's really interesting. You know, it to me, it reminds me, we had a podcast episode, and it was about, it was about energy healing as it relates to HR practitioners with a gal named Sam, Sam Smeltzer, who's, she's pretty exceptional, but it was, you know, trying to kind of dispel this, this feeling of like, you know, kind of, like foo foo, is the word she uses, like, like, like, the things that maybe aren't, like, generally seen in the corporate environment, but trying to try to bring those together. So how are you kind of addressing that, you know, maybe that tendency for a business environment to feel like, Oh, this is just this is kind of like, you know, fuzzy, and like, you know, like, like a warm, fuzzy as opposed to like, like, hard business impact.

Patricia Karam: 36:23

Yeah, and I think that's what we need. That's what I think that we have been talking about energies, I think, like, 90s 2000s, we've been very masculine. And I think it's time to, to kind of bridge that gap and have equal energies of masculine and feminine, you know, not everything is Go Go Go Go business, I think we do have to set time aside to work on ourselves and be better versions of ourselves. And understanding that through human design, that makes sense.

Kyle Roed: 36:53

Yeah. Now, that's really interesting. perspective, you know, the, I'm just reflecting, you know, the word or the term, you know, masculine as it relates to like, corporate culture. I certainly, you know, I've seen that. But I've also, like, for the first 10 years of my career, all of my my leaders were were female. But when I had my first male leader, it was very different. Yeah. And, and, but I feel like that gave me a really great perspective on you know, what, what type of leadership works? And, you know, it just gave me it gave me kind of a broader view on on, you know, on leadership and human resources in general. And so, yeah, I mean, I think that's a really interesting, interesting call out, especially as we look at, at our organizations and, and US business culture in general, right, or, you know, global business culture. I mean, a lot of times the masculine energy is the kind of the primary energy that you see.

Patricia Karam: 37:49

Yeah. And when I say masculine energy, I'm also referring to, you know, the concept of we're living to work versus working to live or working from 7am to 9pm. That's a very masculine feel, like just doing doing doing, but when are you going to have yourself care and all that, all that fun stuff? Yeah. So it doesn't get to mental illness?

Kyle Roed: 38:15

Yeah, I find I have to be very intentional, as we think about, you know, some of those, some of those types of programs in my world, where I have to think about the language that I use, so that it doesn't, so it doesn't fall into that camp. Right, like, so it's like, I can't, like using the term self care, you know, could be could be perceived as like, well, we're, we're a business, we're here to make money, you know, self care, that's something somebody does, you know, on their own, but instead of using the term self care, you know, using the term, you know, work life balance, or, you know, having a compelling like, you know, a compelling vision for employees to follow or, or meeting employees where they're at, you know, things that are a little bit less emotionally charged. I mean, that's just, you know, right, wrong or indifferent. That's, that's how I certainly have had to approach it. And in many of my organizations, even though it's the right thing to do, right, it's just it's trying to try to find that middle ground there.

Patricia Karam: 39:15

I know. So, yeah, I'm from the staffing side sales side. So it's a different perspective from my end, but I definitely see where you're coming from for sure.

Kyle Roed: 39:25

Absolutely. All right. Well, we are rounding out the end of our time here, and I want to make sure I'm really curious to hear your questions to the the rebel HR flash round, so. All right, ready to go. I'm ready. Okay. All right. Question number one. What is your favorite people book?

Patricia Karam: 39:42

Okay, right now I'm currently reading influence redefined by state Stacy Hank Hankey. Have you heard of that

Kyle Roed: 39:50

book? I'm not familiar. Love it. All right. Question number two, who should we be listening to

Patricia Karam: 39:57

your podcasts? I actually definitely want to listen into the wind. Going over energy so that is my next to do to listen to

Kyle Roed: 40:06

Sam Smeltzer Yeah, I don't know the episode off top my head but I was gonna look up Sam. That was really cool. It's funny because she, yeah, she has a podcast herself too called the, the heart of it with you know it HR art is love it so and she's got a ton of great content, but I still use, she has a technique. That is it's about visualizing a bubble so that negative energy doesn't like, like influence on you. I think about that on a really regular basis, especially when someone's coming into my office huffing and puffing and, you know, it's it's, it's actually a technique that, for whatever reason, it tends to work for me. So yeah, check it out. It's it's definitely well, it's out there. So. So thank you for that. And last question here the hardest hitting question about how can our listeners connect with you?

Patricia Karam: 40:56

Ah, yes, thank you. Well, we're on all the socials, our websites mission, recruit calm and you know, Instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook, it's all mission recruit. I hope to hear from everyone.

Kyle Roed: 41:08

Awesome. Well, thank you so much. This has been really fascinating for me something totally new that I've never really explored or heard about before. And that's what this podcast is all about. So thank you for bringing something new to, to us and to our listeners. And we'll have all that information in the show notes. If anybody wants to learn more, get connected to Patricia and her team and, and learn a little bit more about human design.

Patricia Karam: 41:32

Thank you so much, Kyle.

Kyle Roed: 41:34

Thank you. All right. That does it for the rebel HR podcast. Big thank you to our guests. Follow us on Facebook at rebel HR podcast, Twitter, at rebel HR guy, or see our website at rebel human resources.com. The views and opinions expressed by rebel HR podcast are those the authors and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any of the organizations that we represent. No animals were harmed during the filming of this podcast. Maybe