Rebel Human Resources Podcast

Episode 90: Leading on the Edge with Pete Zaccagnino

March 15, 2022 Kyle Roed, The HR Guy Season 2 Episode 90
Rebel Human Resources Podcast
Episode 90: Leading on the Edge with Pete Zaccagnino
Show Notes Transcript

Peter likes to live on the edge and is a living example of what it takes to be a true leader.

He's flown over 23,000 hours in more than 270 aircraft types, flight-tested over 685, and even built 3 of his own! Peter’s company, High Performance Aircraft Group, manages several corporate jets, provides his clients with custom-tailored, high-intensity world tours, and performs flight test services for several manufacturers, including the U.S. and foreign militaries.

He’s also the film producer of multiple Discovery Channel productions and starred in a lead role in the "Dangerous Flights" series. His book “Relevant” is a "Behind The Curtain" Thriller inspired by true events that reveal eye-opening top-secret encounters and the greatest lessons in leadership.

Pete’s philanthropy includes Wounded Warriors, the National Ability Center, various orphanages in Central and South America, and Christian Service projects for children in remote locations worldwide.

https://www.relevantthebook.com/

Rebel HR is a podcast for HR professionals and leaders of people who are ready to make some disruption in the world of work.

We'll be discussing topics that are disruptive to the world of work and talk about new and different ways to approach solving those problems.

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Pete Zaccagnino:

And finally claim came to a stop. There was no flame I was upgrading. I was really fortunate. I popped the canopy open got off the plane, then there was all these holes in the desert and these little marks in the desert and I said, I know what those are. That's rattlesnakes. Oh, it was a movie moment I took my helmet off and my parachute and plane had smoke and jet fuel all over the place. And I walked towards that dirt path. And it was a very sombering feeling. But I was walking in I was fine playing with total, I destroyed the airplane. But it was a very classic case of mitigating the risk, and I had a successful outcome. Ultimately.

Kyle Roed:

This is the rebel HR Podcast, the podcast where we talk to HR innovators about all things people leadership. If you're looking for places to find about new ways to think about the world of work, this is the podcast for you. Please subscribe, favorite podcast listening platform today. And leave us a review revelon HR rebels. All right, rebel HR listeners extremely excited for this week's guest, Pete Zakka Nino. He is an aviation Hall of Famer a four times air racing gold champion, he likes to live on the edge and as a living example of what it takes to be a true leader with 23,000 hours in more than 270 aircraft types flight tested over 685 and even built three of his own aircraft. He has some interesting stories to tell we're going to be talking about leadership today. Some of his other credits, he is a film producer of multiple Discovery Channel productions, and started a lead role in the dangerous flight series. He has a book out relevant it is a behind the curtain thriller inspired by true events that reveal eye opening top secret encounters and the greatest lessons in leadership. Welcome to the podcast. Thanks. It's

Pete Zaccagnino:

great to be here QA.

Kyle Roed:

Absolutely. Well, you know, I mentioned before I hit record, as I was preparing for this, you know, I think, I think we're going to have a fun show here. And if anybody fits the rebel mold, I think you've probably seen a lot of different aspects of this world. So why don't we start out with how did you get into this business?

Pete Zaccagnino:

Well, I mean, aviation has always been my background, and, or backdrop, you could say, and I've always wanted to be in aviation, I want to design build fly airplanes, and, and I don't have any single event that point to or person or, you know, I'm the only person in the family of flies an airplane or is an engineer and etc. And, and here we are, the only difference is, I did, I definitely did not pursue a classic career, that's for sure. And, and it's been as a result, I think, super rewarding. I've been, I've worked with great people have had great adventures and super fulfilling halfway into it and eager to see what the next half looks like.

Kyle Roed:

Now, it's awesome. And you know, I'm just I'm always fascinated, you know, where the, you know, the the bug comes from to do something different or think differently or take a path that is that is less charted to use a flight pun. So, so I want to, I want to talk a little bit about, you know, leadership. And as we look at, you know, our audience and some of the things we talked about, a lot of times, it's really, it's really HR specific, and we talk about things like you know, Employee Development and Diversity and those sorts of things. But interwoven behind everything we talk about is leadership. So, as you look at, you know, what it takes to be a true leader. And as you look at the definition of leadership, how do you define it?

Pete Zaccagnino:

Well, it I don't think leadership is that complicated. First of all, I think it's nonstop. It's always evolving. It is a series of questions. I use the question method often, and I'll explain in a minute what I mean by that. But of course, the people that support me need my support. And a good leader ensures that they're getting the support they need for myself. And I think that's paramount. So I have to support those that are supporting me, then we have to give them the tools. And then we have to give them the ability to make mistakes. And in some industries, the mistakes have to be small because the consequences are so big, you know, aviation and flight test and air racing and some other the crazy things I've been involved with. We have significant accountability and significant consequences. But we also have to be tough. and of the mistakes, because the learning process from them is significant. And if we work in a mistake free world, our growth is heavily limited. And it's not that we're tolerating a lackadaisical approach, it's just that creativity and alternative, alternative solutions often will have some hiccups and some false starts and other challenges. And you just have to get through those and learn from those. And what I tell everybody, everyone that works with me is, it's real simple, I have a way of doing things. And it's just, it's worked and I'm not dead, you know, let's be blunt. And so if you have a different way to do it, share it with me. And one of two things going to occur, either the person bringing it to me is going to learn from our discussion and encounter, or I'm going to learn and grow from them. And we will, we will both advance is the ultimate goal here. And we will, and a good leader does advance with his support and his team. And he's not behind them, he's not in front of them, he, he's advancing with them. And I think that's a very critical perspective to have, and share. And, you know, culturally, in an organization, what comes from that is an openness. And when people feel open, that's a big win in any type of organization. It just, it doesn't have to be aviation or other aspects. It's just that openness is very, tantamount to success. And I think that embodies leadership really.

Kyle Roed:

Yeah, it's fascinating. I'll be honest, I didn't expect you to comment on openness as a leader as a, as necessarily good trade, specifically because of your background. And those are risk associated with doing something wrong. So So walk me through how you approach managing the risk, because, you know, ultimately, as a pilot, you're a risk manager. Like, every time you've got lives, literal lives in your hands, every time you take that plane up. So so how do you how do you mitigate the risk or manage that risk and allow for the mistakes that that are going to happen? Yeah, so

Pete Zaccagnino:

it's a big picture. Answer, let's say we're test flying an airplane, which is a lot of my background was test flying aircraft. And it's not about the hero moment where we jump in the plane for the first time we take it into the air and bring it back to the ground successfully. Open the champagne bottle, it just doesn't work like that. Right? You know, that's the hero moment. But what goes into that, and requires that openness is, there's a ton of build up to successfully testing that plane for the first time. And to successfully test it for the first time, there's a team of people. And someone could be changing a tire, changing a switch, a light bulb, which could be super critical, because the LED light illuminates a failure mode in the aircraft, if that bulb is out. And you don't know that it failed, whatever that warning systems attached to, that could be a huge problem, right. And if someone didn't do a bold check, a simple bold check on the cockpit. And all of a sudden, everyone's walking out to fire up the plane and go fly and have that hero moment. And they're like, I really need to stop them. He has a critical moment right there, that the culture either supports him or dissuades him from doing, he could assume the bulbs all work, and the warning panel is going to be fine. Or if you run out there, stop. Everybody say, I didn't check the warning system. That's part of my job. And I need to do that. And he stops us at that moment. We want him to run out stop us, obviously. But it doesn't always happen. So cultivating that openness is critical. And if it's a private flight, like we're often doing with our, with our business now, and we're taking a customer to Europe. The openness similarly is your co pilot or CO captain, sharing with you, Hey, I didn't call Canadian passport services and get the COVID test clearance. Oops. But now we can deal with it as opposed to we land in Montreal, and they're all looking at us. unhappily saying what are you guys going to do about this? Right? And because people make mistakes, anything that has humans involved, yeah, mistakes happen, period. Yeah, but that openness fosters a safe environment.

Kyle Roed:

You know, it's really interesting in it, you know, it, it reminds me of the, you know, kind of the studies on on incentivization. Right. So, you know, there's a lot of different types of incentives. And, you know, if, if you dress someone down every time they screw something up, you might be incentivizing them not to tell you, right, actually increasing the risk of something really bad going on, because they're not telling you when things are mildly wrong. rate. So, yeah, that's, that's fascinating. So, you know, obviously, one of the things that that I think is really interesting about your background is the test pilot thing. And I got to think, the, the level of confidence in your abilities, when you get into this tested and or untested plane, and you hit start, how do you manage that, like, what's got to be like a little bit of a gut check moment, before you take this thing off the ground?

Pete Zaccagnino:

Well, the that moment is the culmination of several events. And one of the things I like about the test flying world is the accountability. And you're super accountable. Because everything is culminating into that one moment, that one moment when you're going to take that plane into the air for the first time. And so yeah, there's a, there's kind of a pause, and, for me, at least, and it's pretty zen like, where you're not getting amped up, because that's not good. But you're also not passively sitting there in the plane, you know, it's a combination of being very alert, very aware, but also vary the foot, the focus brings a calm, because the role is not risk elimination, the role is risk mitigation, you can't eliminate it, there's all there's risk and everything. And so what we can do is mitigate it, be at a better airport, have done the due diligence on the design, have done the proper ground test, not all mitigates it. So at that moment, you know, it's, it's here comes the accountability to the highest level, and, and you push thralls, forward, and off you go. And, and with the plan of returning in a like, similar aircraft condition.

Kyle Roed:

Without hitting eject, yeah,

Pete Zaccagnino:

don't want to do that. Because think about that, especially from your perspective. That company, whether it's a small company, or it's a huge company, they're putting a ton of data, that corporate success onto your shoulders for that moment. And it's a really serious deal. And with massive outcomes.

Kyle Roed:

You know, it's just fascinating to hear that, you know, that the process that you have to go through, and then you don't amp up that you kind of go into the, you know, an alert Zen state. You know, I think, and, you know, I admittedly, I've never done that, I don't know that I necessarily have a corollary event other than, you know, when you're sending that email to the entire distribution list and the corporation with that, whatever you're sending, and you hit send, and you and you feel that it's the closest thing I got, man. Oh, my God,

Pete Zaccagnino:

it's a smaller moment, because you're going to be super accountable. Moving. Yeah, right. You just put it all on the line, because you hit the world button, right?

Kyle Roed:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, oh, yeah.

Pete Zaccagnino:

There's no taking it back. You're done.

Kyle Roed:

Or my favorite is the response to the all DL and BCC all and you know, then it's, then we're off to the races, but I'm sure many, I'm sure many people have have have had that moment. But oh, yeah. Not quite as bad as an ejector seat in the test airplane. But you know, you don't feel good. No. So So, yeah, so, you know, I think it's really it's just really interesting to talk to somebody from a from a fairly, you know, different industry. But, but there's so many different, you know, correlations that, that you could draw there, and I love the fact that you brought out the, the the fact that you know, you can't eliminate risk. Yeah. You know, and and it's about mitigation. So, walk me through maybe some some some stories or examples where, you know, you had, you would have liked to eliminate risk, but you ended up just having to mitigate a circumstance to the best of your ability.

Pete Zaccagnino:

Well, the the here's a really good punctuating example. This, this was really racing in a jet that we had returned to service and it was a long process. And we won with this aircraft took the gold championship in 2015. very successfully. But the plane did it kicking and screaming. It was a vintage jet. It's such a long involved story. But it's interesting, because in the subsequent year, I brought that plane back thinking, you know, we're here to win again. And we're up on a race, and I had this the loudest bang I've ever heard in an aircraft in my life, my career. And so bangs aren't good, you know? That's in the bad category.

Kyle Roed:

I understand that, that that makes sense. To me. That makes sense.

Pete Zaccagnino:

Right? You know, bang is bad. Yeah, yeah. So I immediately came off the race track, because we're down, you know, 50 to 100 feet off the ground, and with a whole bunch of other aircraft. So I came off the racetrack, I was doing about 500 miles an hour, and I pulled up. And I was trying to evaluate what was going on. And it turned into a whole bunch of failure modes, and it's pretty technical. The I had to the side of my canopy had a hole in it, which made no sense. To this day, it doesn't make any sense. Not the front, not the back, but the side. Then I had a jam in a control. And I really thought I was going to have to parachute out of the airplane. And so I was going up, not vertical. But I was going up pretty steeply to get altitude, altitude you friend. And then I cleared out one problem. And then another problem the whole time, the engine looked fine. And it's only one jet engine. And there's not a backup. And so I was setting up the land trying to figure out what was wrong in the plane and it seemed land the ball. And then I asked for power and it did nothing. There was no power. I was like this is really getting to be annoying. I was rather annoyed. And I declared my third emergency on the radio. Johnny gets some help from the chase plane that is there to look over your airplane. And I came down and I was set up to land in the desert. And I was down to about 500 feet over the ground. And I'm now I'm in survival mode and mitigation mode. So I didn't want the plane to flip over for all those bad reasons if it does. And I'm not landing on runway or an improved surface, I'm in the desert in the sand. And but there was this dirt path I was gonna line up on this dirt path and I thought it was a great idea. And it looked pretty good at 2000 feet above the ground. So I'm I'm I'm latching a backup latch and the canopy so I can get out faster, I start shutting down pumps, again, I'm reducing my risk and doing things with my hands so that if I do have a crash impact, my hands are going to break my wrists and things like that. So I'm doing all this crash preparation. And I made a final radio radio call and I shut down the power to avoid sparks and fire and all that. So I'm lined up for this dirt path. And I'm getting down close. And right in front of me in the sage is this three foot cement pillar that was hidden. I couldn't see it. Oh man, I go, Well, this is bad. This is the bad category. So I referred to the last night you know, move the plane over to avoid it. And I touched down in the raw desert. And I flew the plane through the desert basically trying to keep it up right. And what was interesting there was through my helmet mask and everything else going on. All of the Nevada desert was shoving into my face. It was unbelievable. Because it was parts and pieces were flying off the plane. So the desert was getting inside and it was a tremendous amount. And it finally came flying came to a stop. There was no flame I was upgrading. I was really fortunate. I popped the canopy open, got off the plane. Then there was all these holes in the desert and these little marks in the desert and I said I know what those are. That's rattlesnakes it was it was a movie moment I took my helmet off and my parachute and playing had smoke and jet fuel all over the place and and I walked towards that dirt path and I was very alone. It was a very sombering feeling but I was walking in I was fine. The plane was totaled, like destroyed the airplane. It was not rebuildable but it was a it was a very classic case of mitigating the risk and and I had a successful outcome

Kyle Roed:

So I love that you're like you're telling a story that in my mind, I'm like, you know, I would be like screaming in panic wreck face. And you're like, This was annoying. calm under pressure, I think is the you know, maybe the tagline of this podcast. Yeah, yeah. So what do you what do you attribute that? That that that coolness under fire to what? Where did you kind of forge the that that mentality of mitigation? Yeah. And it amid stormy skies?

Pete Zaccagnino:

Well I mean I I learned early on by observation by study, reading listening to people have done things successfully before me that, you know, getting all excited and drama and all that doesn't help anything. I mean, it's just the opposite. Even your body releases chemicals are unfavorable. And it's been with me for the longest time I just don't get rattled, and I'm pretty calm about things. And unless I have to give a speech, and I'm pretty nervous, yeah, I'll get on stage and, you know, everyone's staring at me, I'd rather be in the vampire jet but the it that is more intimidating to be looking at a 5000 peers in an audience out to give a speech. You know, and but I've just really worked for years on that whole concept of remaining very balanced during important events. And it's hard to describe, but you have to ascribe to it, it's not happening. And it didn't happen for me overnight. But I definitely was working towards that for years. Just that on a balance, I think is the best way to put it.

Kyle Roed:

That's really interesting. And I, you know, part of me, kind of goes back to, you know, some of the some of my thoughts on you know, our profession when we're dealing with like upset employees and things like that, you know, matching somebodies emotional outburst has never ended well.

Pete Zaccagnino:

Yeah, no. But hey, we're all human. I mean, it happens right now. And, but it's it, that's got to be a tough role, because you need to empathically listen to them, while representing the company and everything else. I mean, I think that's just a very challenging situation.

Kyle Roed:

It's, you know, that's an interesting observation. It's one of those things I struggled with a lot early in my career. And I've talked about that on the podcast before where I used to flip a switch where I would like, because I'd be like, me, then I flip a switch. And I become like, emotionless corporate drone person. Right. And that, but that was the only way I could get through, like, like, firing somebody. Right? It's terrible. It's, it was horrible. It's emotional. You know, I generally, I like to think I'm a nice guy, I don't want to fire people up Joe. But I love the fact that you use the term balance because I would say it's been it's a very different journey for me, but but a similar experience where it's like, listen, it's, it's not about being emotion less. It's, it's, it's about maintaining the appropriate level of balance of, you know, empathy and emotion. And, but but making sure that you don't let that the chemicals take take hold of you. And you know, you're gonna let your you know your intellectual self present.

Pete Zaccagnino:

Yeah, yeah, no, I think you're right. I think that's spot on.

Kyle Roed:

Fascinating, fascinating. So we're gonna keep this train going, because you got a bunch of stories. But I have to ask this question, because I saw this on the sheet. So you've traveled to every country in the world except one. Yeah. So what does that have? What does that country have against you?

Pete Zaccagnino:

Boy, I don't know, because we tried to get to it. And we had an engine failure in a different airplane, trying to get there from South Africa. And that was gonna be the big reveal that I finally got to Madagascar and want to see the little creatures and the Yeah. But I still have yet to go to Madagascar. And okay. But you know, that that too, just happened organically I, I didn't sit there with a list and start checking them off. It just kind of happened. And here we are, you know, learning as a citizen of the world, I think is the best way to put it.

Kyle Roed:

I love that. I love that. And I think you know, so one of my favorite things about my job is we're in a national organization and I get to deal with I get to deal with all sorts of different cultures, attitudes, people, you know, timezone sometimes, but it's, it's, it's just fun, it's dynamic. And so You know, having been so well traveled and having interacted with so many different types of people, what has that taught you as a as a leader?

Pete Zaccagnino:

It's taught me a lot, the leader component is different, because immediately some of the basic things you learn is how little the world knows about each other. And what we might label an area as poor or something like that. They don't see it that way, in some cases, you know. And there's a lot of rich people out there, that we, we would probably label poor. And when you try to relate to them, I think that's the key to it, it's a bit of empathy. But they're trying to share their culture with you, the outsider that's there. And they're curious, and I'm curious, and there's this big exchange that occurs, they don't want a $5 tip. They want to share, and they want to understand, and I think there's that common thread, especially in the simpler cultures that don't have the complexities that have really dissected their brains to little compartments, you know, they have, they have a much simpler approach to life. And, and it shows what people need. And most people just need you to genuinely listen. I mean, genuinely listen to them, and find that common ground, you know, on a Venn diagram between the cultures. And when you find that common ground as a leader, and then the, the ability to connect between the people you're leading is far easier. Because you found this common ground, you know, it could be just two people like football, right? But there's this commonality and what their needs are, and what when you're around simpler people, you learn that their knees are very, very similar to very complicated people. And, and even though the complicated people have a bigger show, and a bigger presence and bigger issues, it's still kind of, it's simple, really, what the needs are, you just kind of get the distractions out of the way. And then listen to those people and find the pathway of communication, so that the leadership occurs much more effectively. And it's two ways, you know, it's between the people you're leading, and the people leading, doing the leading, it's a two way communication. How's that for a simple answer?

Kyle Roed:

And that's yeah, you know, but I think it's so nuanced, right. And I think, but, you know, I think you hit on something that, you know, we've talked about, we've talked about on this podcast, you know, hundreds and hundreds of times, which is it's about connection. Yeah, right. It's it and, you know, empathy, but it's just, you know, it's, it's about the humanity and people, right,

Pete Zaccagnino:

yeah, yeah, it is. And, you know, there's so many cultures out there, they're, their average life expectancy is like 45 years old, and they're not all wrapped around the axle about, you know, all the things that will make them live till 75. And, and it's, their perspective is altered accordingly. And all those little nuances, though, they add up to allowing you to try and find what's important for somebody, when you connect on what's important to them. They're, they're going to listen to their leader, even better.

Kyle Roed:

Mm hmm. That's fascinating. You know, it is really interesting to hear that perspective. And I think it's, you know, coming from a country like the United States and looking at those, you know, those differences in culture and, you know, the simpler, maybe more collectivist societies where it's not about wealth, it's about, you know, family and community and, and that sort of thing. It's sometimes it's, you know, there's a certain prisms, that prism that we see that in as opposed to taking the time to understand okay, what are what are the goals, what are they? What do they want, what are they what do they value? What have you found the commonality between somebody who maybe has their goals and objectives in a simpler context? Also being happier?

Pete Zaccagnino:

You know, that's a tough that's a tough topic because because of the type of work we do with private aircraft, I am around and and involved heavily involved with very fluent, wealthy people. Sure. And and some of my, you know, friends will say, you know, Pete, are they happy? You know, they have that doubting question in their mind. And I? And I said, Yeah, that no, they're really happy. You know, these are I have really great customers, these are happy people, they're, they're fulfilled. And, and the topic spreads to Well, is it the money? No, it's not the money, it's it, they're comfortable with what they've done. Because there's also people that are wealthy, that almost feel a little guilty, I think, I don't have those type of people as customers. And I think it's just coincidence, but I have observed them. And they have this almost like guilt about them. Like, what did I do to get all this? And I think, I think it's back to fundamentals, it's not the money, it's that they weren't comfortable, even before the money. And it just continued, and they didn't find the spiritual fulfillment, that they thought they may have found, I don't know that in their cases. So then when you come back to these simple cultures, that I've been lucky enough to spend time with, they, there are people there, they're very happy. They're very simple, they're very happy. But there's also people there aren't happy, and I don't think it is a function of the simplicity or the complexity. I think there's other things going on in both cases that are very polar opposites. Right. But I do think there's the same issues going on, I really do. Or whatever that is, I mean, you know, I wasn't there for eight weeks diagnosing these people, but, you know, sometimes those are longer and eight weeks, but anyway,

Kyle Roed:

it's just interesting. And, you know, it's, you know, from your perspective, you know, you've just you've seen seen so much. You know, I, I am curious to understand, and I've just got to ask about this, this bullet point. So, you've seen a lot, you've gone a lot of places, you've had some pretty crazy stories that have occurred. So, you know, managed to get out of Russia after being refused exit got detained and bribed by some authorities prevented some kids were getting kidnapped. So we're running out of time, but I want to I want to open up the mic a little bit and say, All right, give me give me the story. That that's gonna make some of these listeners mouse drop.

Pete Zaccagnino:

Boy, okay, here's the tear jerker. I'll give you the short one. Okay. Um, we partnered up with this with just folks, there's just individual folks, and we fixed an orphanage in Guatemala, at several locations. And it, it stopped the kids from getting kidnapped right out of the orphanage because we gave them security and concrete and really fundamental things that prevented the bad guys from you know, stealing these kids away. And it's been very successful since the, one of the big jaw droppers was probably in Pakistan. When, at four in the morning at a checkpoint, I had to get out of the car. The guns were pointed at me. I do not speak their language. I usually learned enough of a language to avoid the guns. And we're at this checkpoint, and it wasn't going well. The driver that was my driver. They started yelling at him. They took them away. They put me back in the car. They shut the door. He left for about 30 minutes, it seemed like four hours. And I'm in the back of his car. Like this isn't good. This is this is another case of bad. I motioned to the guy that had more stripes on his uniform. And he came over he was actually angry at me. And I made some handling, hand sign language, whatever and got out of the car. And I said can I take my picture with you? I bought this little camera I was carrying back then. Digital Camera, you know, and I'm trying to take a selfie with this guy. And it wasn't working right you know? And so he weighs over some other guy with a wood less stripes on his arm. He takes the camera starts to take our picture. I go hey, can I hold your God and so he gives me his gun and he does all through sign language and for words of English. Hold his gun get the picture like hey, how about buy the car and I've I totally turned it into this big I'm gonna make him look good cuz I want right I'm interested in him. It worked. And the driver comes back. And everything was like defused with me. But the driver comes back. And he's like, God, they call me Captain over there. And he's a captain captain. They, they refuse my entry. I said, now it's all good. We're good. We're fine. We can drive. We can drive one. Yeah. The head guy now is smiling and telling the driver that he's in trouble. Everything's fine. But you can drive along and it was all diffuse. It was a hilarious scene.

Kyle Roed:

That's awesome. I haven't put that down in the list. Okay, next time. I'm out at gunpoint, asked for a selfie.

Pete Zaccagnino:

Yeah, if it works. I've used it a few times, actually. And it has worked. You know,

Kyle Roed:

it's so fascinating, though. You know? I just love psychology. So fascinating. But you that was a total ego play. Yeah. You like like, oh, yeah, I want to make this guy feel good about himself physically. You know, and, yeah, I mean, talking about you. Did he invite you over for dinner? And, you know,

Pete Zaccagnino:

he didn't break bread together. But I did hand him now. I'm making a story long, I handed him a business card. I said, anytime you're in America need help you just call me. You know, he's like, Thank you, you know, and because he went about it, you know, I'm never gonna see him again. But I meant what I said, you know,

Kyle Roed:

gets to America actually tracks me down and says, Hey, I need something. I mean, I'm gonna,

Pete Zaccagnino:

I'm gonna help you. I'll help you. There you go. Exactly.

Kyle Roed:

See, and so we're gonna close this podcast on connection.

Pete Zaccagnino:

Absolutely.

Kyle Roed:

What a cool story. And you know, it's it's just, it's just been great getting to know Yeah. And, you know, you're a great example of one of the guests that I just thoroughly enjoy this podcast because I get to meet people like yourself and and get connected with with, with folks with such cool stories. And I appreciate you sharing your your story with us here today. So I do want to shift gears on fascinating because you are a totally different guest profile. We're going to shift in the rebel HR flash round. So curious to hear these. Alright. First question, what is your favorite people book?

Pete Zaccagnino:

Okay, people book if I understand the question, I'm going to say is Atlas Shrugged. Hmm.

Kyle Roed:

I have never read that book.

Pete Zaccagnino:

Oh, shame on you.

Kyle Roed:

required reading? Okay, got it. Alright, question number two, who should we be listening to?

Pete Zaccagnino:

We should be we should be challenging. Do you mean and let me back it up for a minute. Sorry. But do you mean on like an informational question.

Kyle Roed:

It can be whatever you want it to be.

Pete Zaccagnino:

Okay. Who Who should we listen to? We should listen to people have done it before us and done it? Well. Don't listen to people just opinions. Those that have done it. Well.

Kyle Roed:

There you go. You know, that is probably a really good caption for a lot of the news stories that you hear. He has a lot of opinions out there. Yeah. Doesn't mean you should listen to every single one.

Pete Zaccagnino:

Wow. Have they done it? And have they done it? Well, right. Right. Yeah.

Kyle Roed:

Alright, coming from a guy who's who only has Madagascar and check off the list.

Pete Zaccagnino:

I know I gotta get there.

Kyle Roed:

Alright, last question. Here's a toughy. How can our listeners connect with

Pete Zaccagnino:

you? Just email me, Pete Pete at pass air.com. And I will happily engage.

Kyle Roed:

Perfect, perfect. Yeah. And we will have that information in the show notes. We're also going to have some additional details on the book. It is relevant. The book.com is the website. There's I'll give you an opportunity to plug I know you're doing a series as well. So give us a little bit of detail on some of the some of the work you're doing there.

Pete Zaccagnino:

Sure. Relevant is the series title and also the first book and I'm really proud of how it's done. It's been great and I enjoyed the process. It just a tremendous creative process really enjoyed it. And so made the new Cold War which is book two. And and the third book is halfway done as we speak.

Kyle Roed:

Awesome. Sounds good. So and military thriller inspired by true events. So if you want to break reading the 490 page, OSHA vaccine mandates, pick up a book and take your brain on a tangent that's actually enjoyable.

Pete Zaccagnino:

I think you learned something too. That was kind of the goal.

Kyle Roed:

Perfect. Well, Pete, thank you again, so much for sharing, sharing the time with us here today, and look forward to continuing to do Follow your journey.

Pete Zaccagnino:

Awesome. Thanks, Kyle. Hope we get to chat again. Next time I'm in Iowa, let you know.

Kyle Roed:

Let me know. I'll wave at you when your overhead. Yeah. Got a lot of flyovers. Alright, thanks. Take care. All righty. Bye bye. Bye. All right. That does it for the rebel HR podcast. Thank you to our guests. Follow us on Facebook at rebel HR podcast, Twitter at rebel HR guy, or see our website at rebel human resources.com. The views and opinions expressed by rebel HR podcast are those the authors and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any of the organizations that we represent. No animals were harmed during the filming of this podcast. Maybe