Rebel Human Resources Podcast

RHR 122: Break all the Rules and Win Your Career with Tammy Alvarez

October 18, 2022 Kyle Roed, The HR Guy Season 3 Episode 122
Rebel Human Resources Podcast
RHR 122: Break all the Rules and Win Your Career with Tammy Alvarez
Show Notes Transcript Chapter Markers

 Tammy is the CEO and founder of Career Winners Circle. A comprehensive collection of coaching and training programs designed to strengthen leaders to grow their careers quickly and sustainably.

Her spirited “Break all the Rules” approach blends decades of C-Suite experience on Wall Street with a pragmatic, results-based coaching style. She helps business professionals like you create a big impact so you can love every Monday morning again! 

She is an inspirational coach, trainer, and epic storyteller who delivers transformative learning experiences for her global client base. She believes that at the heart of every successful business are leaders who inspire courage. 

 Go from soul-crushing Mondays and feeling stuck as you slog through the drudgery of the day-to-day, to a vibrant career, making a huge impact, with exciting opportunities coming to you!

If your career in Financial Services or STEM has stalled, and you’re left wondering "How did this happen?" You're not alone. Going from rock star to feeling underutilized, irrelevant, or bored out of your mind can feel frustrating, isolating, and overwhelming. 

You can get back on track, reinvent your career, and make a big impact again. All while earning more money, doing something you love, and being recognized for all your awesomeness. 

Using my proven and exclusive programs, we work together step-by-step to reinvent your career, discover and leverage your competitive advantage, and make a big impact again. 

You’ll benefit from my 20+ years as a Wall Street executive and get the inside track on how to become irresistible to your perfect people so you are always in high demand. 

My insider knowledge has helped 95% of our clients land an exciting role in less than 5 months and earn 20% more on average. Unlike other career coaches who only focus on your resume, LinkedIn profile, and tactics to get a J-O-B; I show you exactly how to become the CEO of your career so you take total control, call the shots, and never have to look for a job again because the opportunities will come to you. 

Imagine taking your career from stuck to soaring like Champagne bursting from an uncorked bottle. I’ll show you how to re-build a vibrant career where you won’t have to compromise, be patient, or stay stuck ever again. 

Rebel HR is a podcast for HR professionals and leaders of people who are ready to make some disruption in the world of work.

We'll be discussing topics that are disruptive to the world of work and talk about new and different ways to approach solving those problems.

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Tammy Alvarez:

When you have ambitious, talented people who want to be there, who have, you know, the skills that you know, can help them get into it, and then you provide them an opportunity to grow and fail in a safe way, right because fail safe environments are huge for growth and transformation. All of a sudden, it's not so hard to hire.

Kyle Roed:

This is the rebel HR Podcast, the podcast where we talk to HR innovators about all things people leadership. If you're looking for places to find about new ways to think about the world of work, this is the podcast for you. Please subscribe from your favorite podcast listening platform today, and leave us a review. Rebel on HR rebels. Hello, rebel HR listeners. Welcome back. We have a great guest with us this week, we have Tammy Alvarez. Tammy is the CEO and founder of career winner's circle, a comprehensive collection of coaching and training programs designed to strengthen leaders to grow their careers quickly and sustainably sustainably. She is a rule breaker, and she's going to be a great fit for this podcast, we're gonna have a lot of fun talking about how to break all the rules for your career and your employees career success. Welcome to the show, Tammy.

Tammy Alvarez:

Thank you very much, Kyle, it's great to be here.

Kyle Roed:

Well, you know, I'm sitting here, and I am I'm just appreciative of the time that we're going to spend today. And I have so much jealousy because you're sitting in a tropical paradise, while I sit in the Midwest in the United States. And, you know, now I've just got Jimmy Buffett songs going through my head. So thank you for that.

Tammy Alvarez:

Yeah, that's Sorry, not sorry. Right, in terms of living the dream?

Kyle Roed:

Well, good for you. And and, you know, we're gonna be talking about that a little bit today. And, you know, really kind of trying to live your dream, and help your employees live their dream a little bit. So I want to back up a little bit, just understand. How did you get to Belize?

Tammy Alvarez:

Yeah, that's a great question. And everybody asked that. And when I first decided to come down here, people thought I was out of my mind. And they may be a little bit right. I had spent my entire career on Wall Street. And the last 15 years, I was a C level executive and doing all the fun things in terms of transformation. And I loved what I did, until the day I did it. And then all of a sudden, I look around, and it was just same crap, different acronym. You know, I just wasn't an energized by the challenges anymore. I was irritated by them. And I've just realized it was just time to do a major pivot. And for me, I don't do anything small. It's never how I've ever played. So I decided to cash out, move to a tropical island and start a coaching business. And that's what brings us here today. And Belize just checked all of our boxes. I love scuba diving, and I love being close to the equator. And then we have good enough internet. So where you and I can have this conversation, hopefully uninterrupted. And so that's how we ended up down here.

Kyle Roed:

Well, I love it. I think, you know, I think it's really, really powerful and interesting to go through that career transformation yourself, you know, to, to kind of fight against the inertia of you know, where you were, I mean, you made it. You you were aware so many people aspire to be. So what was the you know, what was that decision making process for you to step away and to, you know, kind of decide to chase your own dreams versus what, you know, society would dream for you.

Tammy Alvarez:

You know, I came through my career in a very untraditional way. So I grew my career in a way that no one else did either. So I never felt contained by expectations. For example, I never went to college. I didn't get my degree until I was 40. And I was already a managing director on Wall Street without a college degree, surrounded by all these, you know, people with pedigree and all that kind of fun stuff. So I'm a bit scrappy to begin with. And so the rules for me the rules apply to everyone else, which is why I love the break all the rules approach. So the bigger the scarier and the more insane sounding, then the more I was all in and but I did get a lot of that feedback from my other friends on Wall Street cuz I did make it big paycheck fancy job fancy apartment in Manhattan, great life. And they're like, why are you giving up? And that was the question that they would ask. And I'm like, How does moving to a tropical island and starting my own company giving up? You know, and so that's that was part of the headspace because once I started the firm, I'm like, well, maybe I don't have what it takes. Because I could run a big team. I just didn't know how to be an entrepreneur. So it was a learning process there. And so for me, because I never had anything to lose. I've never played like I had anything to lose. And the thought of oh, well, I'm never going to and my fallback was that if I fail, if this is just an epic disaster and fails at every possible level, well, I can always go back to Wall Street and get a big girl job again. So I never felt like the risk was that big to take in the first place.

Kyle Roed:

Right? That's, you know, that's really interesting. And I can tell you, you know, you could certainly drive some transformation. I just just in talking to you for the last few minutes. So I love, I love the statement, the rules. The rules don't apply to me and they never never applied. But I guess the question is, you know, in the work that you do, and the you know, I know you do a lot of executive coaching, you help a lot of a lot of leaders kind of figure this out for themselves. Why do you feel like so many people do feel like the rules, apply to them, and kind of get stuck.

Tammy Alvarez:

I think by nature, most people are rule followers. And they like to have guardrails, and they like to have that certainty that if I do this, then this will happen. And there's that comfort that comes with that. And I think a lot of people just like to have that belief that when certain when I when I do certain things, other things will follow. But the sad truth is that when you do these things, your expectations aren't met. And I think that's really where a lot of the disenfranchisement is coming from in the employee employer. Friction, let's use a nice word, right that's going on in the market today, and has been for the past year or so. And it's just like, hey, I'm doing all the things, and none of the things that I'm supposed to expect to happen are. And so how do you navigate through that, and when my clients come to me, they have had it, whether it is corporate, or whether it's a private client, that self funding their way out of whatever situation that they're in, they've tried all the things they're supposed to try. And it didn't work, and they're out of options in terms of the way they would think about addressing a situation. So I think that's why people get stuck, is just because they don't know the other things that are available to them. And sometimes it's a blind spot where they don't even see that oh, hang on a second. This is absolutely not the way I should be playing this particular situation.

Kyle Roed:

Yeah, I think, you know, as I reflect on it from from my seat, you know, I can, I can recall a number of conversations that I've had with employees over the year where they're, they are stuck. And it's almost like, it's too late, you know, like, like, burnout has already occurred, or the, you know, the, they've already given up. And it's, and a lot of times, you know, those conversations, the context is usually, I have somebody who's having a problem, you know, and we're at a very uncommon situation, and it's, and, you know, and I just, a lot of times your heart goes out to those, those individuals, but it's almost too late. So I

Tammy Alvarez:

knew just think if I gotten there, you know, six months earlier, or how do we how do we not get there at all?

Kyle Roed:

Yeah, yeah. And I can't tell you how many times I've had this conversation with other, you know, HR professionals, and it's, you know, it's the conversation about, well, you know, selection error, or just wasn't the right fit, or, you know, something along those lines, that just just becomes a much bigger problem had we caught it earlier, you know, and, and there's just, I personally have a lot of regret, you know, in those situations in my career, and I just wish there was something that we could do to help. So

Tammy Alvarez:

there's that. Yeah, there is things that you know, that you can do to get ahead of this, both for yourself personally, and you know, it for your company, right, and helping your leaders navigate through that.

Kyle Roed:

Absolutely. So we were talking before I hit record, I know that you've done a lot of work on some of these, these breaking all the rules, tactics. So let's, let's kind of dive into that a little bit, you know, as you've worked with your clients, and you've done some research, and just through your experience, what are some of those rules that need to be broken?

Tammy Alvarez:

Okay. So I think the first trap that we all fall into, is believing that loving our jobs, like waking up and feeling just lit up in the morning to go do what we do is a pipe dream. And that it's reserved for that special 10% that actually do that. And we don't think that we're entitled to defer that. And that I think, is where everything starts to fall apart. Because when you aren't stepping into something that the minute your eyes open, you're like, This is awesome. And I can't wait to do this today, then you're not in an environment where you thrive. And we all know all the terrible things that happen when you're not in an environment that comes naturally to you where you're able to use your talents and feel like you're making a big impact. So the first thing I think that people do is they quit before they start. And they set that bar of acceptance so low, that when they reach it, they're miserable, versus saying I do deserve to have something that I love. And more importantly, here's the stuff I love to do, which a lot of people don't know, right, you got to spend some time actually figuring that part out. But when you look back in your career, and we can apply this to our own personal careers, and as we help others through their careers, it's so easy to say What were the environments that you crushed it, we all have those epic moments in our careers where we're like the hero, and we save the day. And I think we all have those in our own way. And when you look at those, you'll find themes. There are consistent things that were there every time you felt like a rockstar. And so if you can replicate that environment again and again and again, then you're in an environment that you're going to love. And that serves you and that you can serve back. And so that is, I think the biggest mistake that people make is the rule they follow is I don't really have to love my job, when the reality is you do because if you don't, everything else is just so much harder. So that's number one.

Kyle Roed:

Yeah, I think it's really I'm struggling with this one, because I was kind of, I don't disagree, but I'm gonna start there. I think that everybody should find joy in their job. But I was always raised with that, you know, that that thought process that you know, love your job, you never work a day in your life is all BS, right? Like that. That is how I was brought up that was always kind of preached in my household. And, and so and especially early in my career. I mean, I Yes, there were some really sucky things that I that I did, and, and quite frankly, in retrospect, probably things that I actually just sucked at that were sucky.

Tammy Alvarez:

But a lot of bad things going on there. Right.

Kyle Roed:

Right. Right. So that you know, and in hindsight, it's easy for me to see that. That now. And but I think the one I guess the one comment that I would say is, or maybe more of a question, when you're in that situation, and you feel like, you're, you don't love your job, you know, or you're having a crappy day, or for whatever reason, you know, things are just not working out. How do you figure out the difference between like, maybe you're in the right role, you're just having a bad day? Versus like, you are like, you are just in the wrong role, period. And you like, you need to make a change, like how do you how do you work through those kind of the those questions,

Tammy Alvarez:

but I think that it boils down to one word, and that's impact. Because if you have a crappy day, but you still feel like what you do matters, and you're making an impact. That's the core of almost every single one of my clients. It's not about money. It's not about status. It's not about toys and things. It's about impact. And so if you are doing something that you're like, if I disappear tomorrow, no one would know, then you're in the wrong role. Right? If you are in a situation where okay, I'm making a big impact, but everything around me is driving me absolutely bonkers right now, then either you're in a bad cycle, just in terms of maybe there's a lot of stress, or maybe in the wrong company, wrong department. But the role itself is something that is important to you. And so I think assessing how much of like, how much do you really matter. And that applies to everybody, whether you are you know, 10 minutes out of college, or you know, 10 days before retirement, doing something that matters and feeling like you're making an impact at whatever level you're at, should be the cornerstone, I think of how people can and have made those decisions on what types of things like me up.

Kyle Roed:

That's, I think that's a really, really good point. And I can, you know, I think back to some of those conversations I've had with folks who are, you know, really struggling, maybe trying to figure out what they want to do. Yeah, it's like that. It's almost like that, that feeling of helplessness or, or, you know, kind of feeling lost, you could think about, you know, that as a lack of impact, right, the inability to really make a difference, or to move the needle in the right in the right direction, right.

Tammy Alvarez:

All of us want to show up and at least feel like someone has benefited. It's not about the paycheck, although those are super nice. And no one would say no, that's okay. You can keep it this week. And so we wanted to make sure that, you know, but impact, I think not only is different for everyone, but it changes for everyone. And so the things that I felt were important for me to make an impact with earlier in my career, versus the things that are important for me in terms of making an impact now, couldn't be any further from each other. And so I would encourage you, once you figure out where is that so what to your contribution, to ask that and check in every so often, because it changes as you progress as you get those experiences of sucking, and you get those experiences where you don't. And you know, you move through life and you've got different priorities than the way you make an impact changes. And I think it's important to assume once you've figured it out once it's not done, so check in every now and then as well.

Kyle Roed:

Absolutely. And roles change too, right. And companies changing cultures change, you know, and so it's yeah, it's it's very dynamic. Right. Well, I

Tammy Alvarez:

mean, there's several times in my career where I'd be sitting in a role and a transformation expert, right? So I love to do all the hard stuff. And I will be a rockstar. I'm like, All right, like, you feel like you're totally in it. And like, yes, you can do, everything is good. And then less I was from financial services. So we worked every 10 minutes. And so a reorg would happen, I would get a new boss, and I would go from hero to zero, like that. I'm like, nothing else changed. And so yes, there's very, very legitimate things that happen around you that you can't control that either make things better, worse, or stay the same, but always be coming back in and testing that again.

Kyle Roed:

Okay. Okay. So you actually can love your job. So that is

Tammy Alvarez:

not just can should?

Kyle Roed:

Well, I think that, you know, I guess, you know, reflecting on your, your personal career, you know, had you not taken the job to do something that you truly wanted to do, and to really kind of pursue your dream and to scuba dive every day. You know, what level of regret would you have had?

Tammy Alvarez:

Well, I have not made a decision earlier in my life. So that's how I knew not to do it again, right. And I think, you know, those those regrets of, you know, you always regret the chances that you didn't take, right. And so, I've missed out on opportunities earlier in my career, where I'm like, Ah, because I didn't have that college degree, I played things safe. Sometimes I'm like, that was a mistake, because had I done this, then this probably would have happened. And So had I not made this, I think the impact in my life would have been substantial. Because this is the time in my life, where it's all about me. My daughter graduated college, like, I have no more adult supervision requirements at all. And I can really just make the whole thing. And yeah, it was really, really nice, right. And so, so if you don't like this is the first selfless opportunity I've had. And So had I not really taken the advantage of saying, Alright, worst case scenario, I either go back to sleep on my mom's couch, or I get a big girl job again, it's like, if I didn't do that, I'd still be miserable. I'd still be making you know, a ton of money and living a fancy life. But every single day would be a slog. And I don't know about you, but I'm not a compartmentalized kind of person. So I put so much value into my identity, I think a lot of us do into our careers, that when that's a hot mess, it can't help but bleed into other things. Where you start to separate personally, you know, you detach, you're not present, you're not engaged, you don't do the things you love, you get fat, all the things right. And so, you know, so in terms of what might have happened, I think I just would have been a hot mess. Because I just, I'm not able to happily live a compromised life. So it's, you know, that's, I'm willing to take the chances in order to make that happen.

Kyle Roed:

So you got to break a couple rules. So what's another rule that that needs to be broken

Tammy Alvarez:

up another another rule that holds so many people back from greatness. And it's this misconception that you've got to have the skills and the experience to do your role. Now, none of us are born with the working experience, right? We get it over time. And so many of us hold ourselves back. It's like, Oh, I've never done that before. Oh, I don't have that skill. Oh, you know, a million different excuses, and insecurities, and all those other things that go on. And for some reason, and I am dealt with, see the career sea level, people have been there forever. And you know, and five years in and everything in between, we have this terrible habit of throwing away all the things that we've done in the past, thinking it doesn't count for the new thing that we want to do. And that's where you get promoted, whether you want to move to a new industry, whether you want to start to be an entrepreneur, whatever it is. And so this feeling like we had to have done it before, in order to move forward or move differently, hold everyone back. And the reality is, that is not true. And as HR professionals, I think it's it's our job, to give people the space and the room to grow, even though they may not look like it on paper. Right. As people who own our own careers, I think it's really important to make sure that we don't discount all of the amazing skills and capabilities that we've developed over our careers, because someone else needs those desperately. And finding those opportunities, where all the things that you have are in high demand and in short supply is magic. And that's where you really become highly sought after and then people will start to tap you and say hey, are you interested? What are you doing? Here's a promotion opportunity. And so I don't think companies give enough time. For people who aren't obvious but ambitious and capable. To do something new, and people inherently are already are already going to shortchange themselves to begin with. So there's this weird disconnect. So the rule that I've got to have the experience before I can do anything before I can move forward is a rule that doesn't apply. And we need to break that one completely.

Kyle Roed:

Yeah, that's really interesting. And I, I agree 100%. You know, it's in the same breath, I'm also thinking about, you know, how many people I've hired that looks great on paper? Yes, dot dot dot, you know? That's right. You know, and, and really, I mean, I think, first of all, I think just trying to try to select, you know, employees for roles and candidates for roles. It's, it's just really, really hard. You know, and a lot of times, you think that you also think that you know, what skills are needed to be successful in that job. And a lot of times those you're wrong, you know, a lot of times that job requires a skill set that you haven't even really thought of, and it could be a really great match. And there's just because because we are imperfect, at selecting talent, we also have to be aware, as HR professionals that, you know, that position profile might not be 100%, right? You know, this, the hiring manager might be wrong. Maybe they maybe they just had a bad conversation. You know, there's, I mean, there's just so much that can happen there, you have to give people a shot.

Tammy Alvarez:

Well, and I do think we overcomplicate the selection process, in terms of let's face it, when you look at a job description, by the time it's done. Exactly. And so, HR, we can fix this, right doesn't have to be that way. And so I've hired hundreds of people in my career, right, and I would say, I probably have about an 85% success rate. So I think that's pretty good. You know, considering all the different countries and environments and stuff like that. And for me, what I would do, because I'm a big, I'm a big person in terms of an advocate of empowerment, I'm going to hire smart people, I'm going to get out of your way. And I'm going to block and tackle, get rid of the roadblocks cover your butt when you make a mistake, and then we get back home. I'm going to give you a little lesson, right. And so, so I think we overcomplicate what we think we're looking for when when you have ambitious, talented people who want to be there, who have you know, the skills that you know, can help them get into it, and then you provide them an opportunity to grow and fail in a safe way, right? Because failsafe environments are huge for growth and transformation, all of a sudden, it's not so hard to hire. But when you're trying to check all the boxes, and when you have 17 people doing interviews, and six group interviews, two presentations, you know, a automated interview and all the craziness that we have these people go through, we make it too hard on ourselves. And I don't think we have to, you know, yes, you're gonna get your bad hires. But in terms of looking for talent, versus looking for skills, when you start to change that mindset, then I think hiring becomes much easier.

Kyle Roed:

Absolutely, you know, I think it's, it's, it's a really important, really important topic, I think that there is a lot of, there's a lot of good data available, but at the end of the day, you're never, you're never going to find a perfect candidate. And I think from I'm thinking about this from a personal perspective, you know, if you are not applying for jobs, where you are maybe, you know, 70 or 80% match to that position. Yep. Yeah, you know, you're, you're doing yourself a disservice. Because especially now, you know, I think everybody in HR kind of realized, Mark. I'll tell you, 70%, I'll take 65 Tell me where to

Tammy Alvarez:

pause right now. And it's funny, because when you talk about perfect candidates, like first of all, show me a perfect leader. Yeah. The perfect candidate, right. So you go first, and then see where the candidates come from. It's humans. And so I think that's super important. I love that, you know, it's just that it doesn't exist, right. So in terms of that perfection,

Kyle Roed:

absolutely. Yeah, exactly. All right. What we're gonna keep going here, we're breaking some rules. What are some other rules we're gonna break?

Tammy Alvarez:

Alright, so I think the, one of the the epic, you know, end of the story, big rules that people really need to start to realize is that you need to become the CEO of your career. And I think HR professionals need to help people realize that they call the shots in their careers, because when you start treating your career like a business, you start to make different decisions. And so many people fall into the trap that if I do good work, that I will be recognized. And we all know that that's not true, right? That's the basic price of admission, so you don't get fired. But that's not how you move ahead. And so many people are like, I'm doing all the right things. I'm taking all the projects, I'm doing all the overtime, I'm doing all the right. And I'm like, no, no, no, you're doing all the wrong things, right, in terms of really figuring out how to advocate for yourself, how to be more strategic in terms of where you want to take your career, and how to really put yourself in the best position to get the skills that you need, and to be recognized for your current contributions and your future capabilities. And so until you promote yourself to becoming that CEO of your career, your destiny is up to somebody else. Like who would you rather write your story, right as you or someone else. And, and so I think that is the biggest rule to break is that stop waiting for permission, stop waiting for somebody else to show you that, yes, you're good enough. And stop waiting for if I do the right thing, eventually someone will notice and start to take control. But with control comes accountability, right. So you can't blame anybody else when things don't happen the way you want them to. And so that's a double edged sword in terms of some people are a little less excited about the accountability part. But that is the biggest rule. By far that changes how I think we can enable our people to take more control in our organizations, and for ourselves in our own careers, as we decide how to navigate is to be able to realize that our good works not enough. And it's up to us to make it what we want it to be.

Kyle Roed:

Absolutely, I think this is such an important point. And it's one of those things I you know, I've kind of had this realization over the last number of years, especially as I've had, you know, you know, three children and you know, in a household around it, it's like, you know, you are kind of your own little, little little entity here on the business, right. And really, to put it in terms of the CEO, it understands that you're just, you're just managing your cash flow, and your assets and your liabilities. You know, I mean, that's not to, you know, nerd out on accounting terms. But I mean, that's really, that's really all a job is, I mean, let you know, again, we could overcomplicated but that's, you know, I think there's some people who just, you know, love to work, but for the most part, we work for a reason, right? Yeah, but once you understand that, and you realize that, that that can be made in a number of different ways. And and you really kind of own it, and you think about it in that context, it's a very different approach. Very different, well,

Tammy Alvarez:

different decisions, right. And things that is hilarious, because if people take, you know, we all personalize our careers, we just talked about that a little bit ago. And so when things don't go the way you want them to, it's a very personal feeling. Right? Yeah, you know, if you get something from Amazon, that's not right, then you return it, and you just write a terrible review on Amazon, right for the vendor. So we can, you know, we don't want to go that extreme, but you get the point in terms of really taking some of the emotion out moving into some strategy and, and really looking at it, like a business just just makes everything, and especially for those that are ambitious, and that really want to move forward with their career, this is a must have, right in those roles that you need to break for sure.

Kyle Roed:

I think it's also a really important thing to be thinking about from an HR standpoint is, you know, you, you are not going to be creating career development paths for all your employees that are going to be right for them, you know, they have to have some level of accountability and ownership here. So you should really be thinking more about how do I structure a system and an environment that allows people to do this? Yeah. And that, and this has encouraged, right, like, the word you used earlier was empowerment, right? It's like, how do you empower your people to think like this? And, and, you know, ultimately, that should drive engagement that should drive people to to, you know, do great things. It should also help people who are in the wrong roles, self select, and go find a role. It's better for them, which is also good. So I mean, it just makes so much sense.

Tammy Alvarez:

Well, um, let me share a pro tip on that specific, that specific problem that you're talking about. So I did something very creative in one of my executive roles that worked like a charm. So we gave people three choices. Do you want to grow into leadership? Do you want to grow in terms of your subject matter expertise? Or are you happy where you are right now? Because that is perfectly fine as well. And then once they selected that path of yes, I want to be a leader or Oh, hell no, I don't want to be a leader. This is crazy, right? I'm like, people are nuts. I'm not doing performance reviews. So I get stuck really, then what do I do? And so we gave them three choices and none of them was a right or wrong choice, you get to pick. And then as we were coming up in terms of our budget, for new initiatives that were coming up for the next year, we would earmark about a dozen projects that we knew were going to be big and scary and needed a lot of hands on deck. And then we gave people those opportunities. It's like, alright, let's look at everybody who said they want to grow in terms of leadership, how do we give them some leadership through influence experience in terms of non direct, but leading a part of a project team, you know, those who want to lead through, you know, their area of expertise? Where do we need those subject matter experts, and let's give them that opportunity to grow. So there are very simple things that we can do to simplify versus having 900 different career branch trees that apply to no one, and no one follows them anyway, let's be real, right? You know, in terms of unless they're angry or dissatisfied, then they'll bring that piece of paper out and say, I didn't get this and you said, right. So it's only used to your disadvantage. So let's keep it simple. Get led, give them the choice, but then set them up for success. And give them an opportunity. They may think they want to be a leader, and they get in there and say, Oh, no, I don't, right. Or they may think, no, I'm good here. And then they see someone's like, well, maybe, maybe I actually can do this leadership thing. So just pro tip in terms of how you might want to rethink about career path, giving people that vision of growth, and that experience of growth, which will help retain people so much more than stay bonuses, and, you know, all the other things that we're throwing at them, because they're in the driver's seat right now.

Kyle Roed:

Yeah, and I think this goes back to, you know, kind of where we, where we started in the, in the beginning with, with, you know, loving your job, it's, it's also the ability for people to determine what matters to them, you know, and, you know, if you have this rigid, you know, ladder system of career progression and development, you know, it's just, I have yet to see an organization where that works really well, right. Like, I think there are some where it probably works, I'm still waiting to experience that myself.

Tammy Alvarez:

You know, you're the king of your kingdom. So maybe you've got some new opportunities, right. So next year, it's like, Okay, I think I know what I want to do.

Kyle Roed:

Well, I think I'm gonna put leadership SME, or, or stay on my, my performance.

Tammy Alvarez:

Like, I'm good now. Right? And that's okay. Everybody's like, in this travel, I gotta, you know, I've got to want more. I'm like, No, you actually don't. Because we had everybody that wanted to be the captain of the team, then we would have nobody playing the game, right? So it's a good mix of having people who want to grow in one of two areas. And then like, No, I'm good. Right where I am. And love that, too.

Kyle Roed:

Yeah. And that's okay. Absolutely. Yeah. All right. Well, no, this has just been an absolutely wonderful conversation, we are already at time, I can't believe it. So

Tammy Alvarez:

we can riff on this.

Kyle Roed:

We're gonna shift gears, we're gonna go into the HR flash round here and go through go through the questions. Question number one, where does HR need to rebel?

Tammy Alvarez:

I think they need to rebel on their hiring process practices. And you need to rebel in how you think about growing your talent. make things simple,

Kyle Roed:

absolutely. And some some really great simple topics here, you know, that we've talked about to take it from a transformation expert, you know, the, the this stuff is works. And I can only guess that you're going to agree with me, Tammy, that, you know, complexity is not always the way to solve problems.

Tammy Alvarez:

It never is, right? Arms razor is alive. And well. You know, and I always think the hardest thing was when you're doing board level reporting, because you got to take a 70 page deck and get it down to a paragraph. And so doing that for years is good practice on simplification, right? And focusing on the things that are the most important. So yeah, so I think simplify and just, you know, put the humanization back in HR. And, you know, keep things simple, both in terms of recruitment, and in terms of leadership development.

Kyle Roed:

Love it. Love it. Question number two, who should we be listening to?

Tammy Alvarez:

Your people? So that's simple. Just ask yourself, your gut instinct, you know, what are you what, if you were if you were there, what would you want to see? I think we get so stuck in the way things are, or the way things are supposed to be or what Sherman's latest ideas are, and it's like, how about we just, you know, let's go back inside. Let's talk to our people. Let's listen to our gut. And that's why I think we need to be listening to first and foremost, because there's a lot of noise out there. And the only thing that really matters is the world that you live in. At least for today.

Kyle Roed:

Love it. All right. Keep it simple. Listen to your gut. Listen, your people got it. Last question, how can our listeners connect with you and learn more?

Tammy Alvarez:

Okay, so they can certainly come to career winner's circle.com Or they can connect with me on LinkedIn as to Mi Alvarez and we also have a company page for career winner's circle as well. So those are the best ways to reach out to us but always happy to help and brainstorm and do all that kind of fun stuff for people who really want to transform either their careers or their role within the organization to make everything better.

Kyle Roed:

Absolutely, we'll have all that information in the show notes. So open up your podcast player. Check it out, you know, they do all sorts of cool stuff. They're doing some challenges right now. But you know, certainly worth checking out Tammy. Really appreciate the time today and appreciate your energy and good for you for chasing your dreams.

Tammy Alvarez:

Yes, let's go be able to do that too. Thanks, guys. It was great fun today. Thank you. Take care.

Kyle Roed:

All right. That does it for the rebel HR podcast. Big thank you to our guests. Follow us on Facebook at rebel HR podcast, Twitter, at rebel HR guy, or see our website at rebel human resources.com. The views and opinions expressed by rebel HR podcast are those the authors and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any of the organizations that we represent. No animals were harmed during the filming of this podcast. Maybe

(Cont.) RHR 122: Break all the Rules and Win Your Career with Tammy Alvarez