Rebel Podcast: Life and Work on Your Terms

RHR 146: AI for HR with Sanjoe Tom Jose

April 05, 2023 Kyle Roed, The HR Guy Season 3 Episode 146
RHR 146: AI for HR with Sanjoe Tom Jose
Rebel Podcast: Life and Work on Your Terms
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Rebel Podcast: Life and Work on Your Terms
RHR 146: AI for HR with Sanjoe Tom Jose
Apr 05, 2023 Season 3 Episode 146
Kyle Roed, The HR Guy

Sanjoe Tom Jose is a thought leader, author, and well-known keynote speaker in the HR Technology space, as well as the Co-founder & CEO of Talview. He is passionate about building technologies that make talent management at organizations more effective and efficient. His innovations include a comprehensive suite of Hiring Solutions and Proctoring Solutions. His goal is to use Artificial Intelligence, Cloud, and Automation technologies to empower organizations to meet their talent needs, while enabling candidates and learners to succeed to their fullest potential.

Sanjoe believes that what a candidate can bring to the table, goes beyond their CV, so he founded Talview with the goal of helping companies get the recruitment processes right by using AI technology. This has led the company to get big recognition and awards such as the 2022 Top Product of the Year Award in Talent Acquisition at the HR Executive Technology Conference.

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Show Notes Transcript

Sanjoe Tom Jose is a thought leader, author, and well-known keynote speaker in the HR Technology space, as well as the Co-founder & CEO of Talview. He is passionate about building technologies that make talent management at organizations more effective and efficient. His innovations include a comprehensive suite of Hiring Solutions and Proctoring Solutions. His goal is to use Artificial Intelligence, Cloud, and Automation technologies to empower organizations to meet their talent needs, while enabling candidates and learners to succeed to their fullest potential.

Sanjoe believes that what a candidate can bring to the table, goes beyond their CV, so he founded Talview with the goal of helping companies get the recruitment processes right by using AI technology. This has led the company to get big recognition and awards such as the 2022 Top Product of the Year Award in Talent Acquisition at the HR Executive Technology Conference.

Buzzsprout - Let's get your podcast launched!
Start for FREE

Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.

Support the Show.

Rebel HR is a podcast for HR professionals and leaders of people who are ready to make some disruption in the world of work. Please connect to continue the conversation!

https://twitter.com/rebelhrguy
https://www.facebook.com/rebelhrpodcast
http://www.kyleroed.com
https://www.linkedin.com/in/kyle-roed/

Sanjoe Tom Jose:

I personally believe that all HR is going to be significantly more important in the future than today, I talview the number of people we have in the people success internally function has doubled in the last one year, and with remote work with new age, a new generation is coming to work. I think the nuances of making people successful is becoming more complex. And as an HR professional, you would be successful if you adopt more technology. And if you stay at the forefront of figuring out how to use all these technologies to help your organization be successful.

Kyle Roed:

This is the rebel HR Podcast, the podcast where we talk to HR innovators about all things people leadership. If you're looking for places to find about new ways to think about the world of work, this is the podcast for you. Please subscribe my favorite podcast listening platform today. And leave us a review revelon HR rebels Welcome back, rebel HR listeners very excited for the conversation. Today we're going to be diving into all things HR tech, our guest today is San Joe, Tom Jose. He is a thought leader, author and well known keynote speaker in the HR tech space, as well as co founder and CEO of talview. He's passionate about building technologies that make talent management at organizations more effective and efficient. We're gonna be talking about some of his innovations today. They include a comprehensive suite of things like hiring solutions, as well as proctoring solutions. And we're gonna talk a little bit about AI. So excited for the conversation today. Sanjay, welcome to the show.

Sanjoe Tom Jose:

Thank you happy to be here.

Kyle Roed:

What we're really happy to have you and I said this, before we hit record, you know, I'm probably going to ask some dumb questions. So just bear with me. But that, you know, I think I think this is just such an important topic, especially because, as I've been in HR for almost 20 years now, I've just seen tech become more and more and more prevalent. And I don't see that stopping. So it's up to us to educate ourselves on that. Right. So with that being said, you know, my first question is what got you in interested in the HR tech space? You know, what, how did you find your journey to working on helping us solve some of our talent solutions?

Sanjoe Tom Jose:

Thank you. So, I think unlike probably many other folks who are, who are in the HR tech space, I started my journey from the perspective of a hiring manager. So in my last role, before I became an HR tech entrepreneur, I was involved in hiring a lot of people. And, and at that time, and I think this has evolved over a period of time, but I my view of the in the hiring process was that this can be a way more, the process can be way more efficient. These, this was the time around 1012 years back when smartphones and internet was becoming more and more popular. And but hiring was still largely in person required a lot of travel required a lot, a lot of scheduling, and in person interactions and all of that. So as a hiring manager who was involved in high volume hiring, I felt that we could use these new technologies to do this in a much more efficient manner. And that's how I started my HR tech journey. Lockback Yeah.

Kyle Roed:

Yeah, you know, so I'm interviewing quite a few positions right now. And some of them are are directly reporting to me. And and, you know, we get so caught in that world of like, you know, helping hiring managers find people, I kind of forget how big of a pain it is, as a hiring manager sometimes because I don't do a significant amount of hiring for myself. But yeah, all the coordination and scheduling and screening and sifting is just, it's challenging. So, so so as you thought about solving that problem. And you know, clearly you are an entrepreneur by wiring, where did you decide to actually start your focus? And you know, kind of how did you really start to unpack that problem?

Sanjoe Tom Jose:

Yeah, so I was involved in hiring a distributed sales for sales organization. So I was managing sales for one of the leading instrumentation or automation organizations, and we had, we used to hire people across maybe 50 cities or that point of time. And my primary challenge was, is when I need to hire in a particular location, my recruitment team would sheduled these interviews, and I'll take the plan for a day traveled to that location. And when I actually land up there, I'm probably supposed to do 10 to 15 interviews, but only three or four would turn up. Something else will happen. Or maybe some of these candidates, I would not have. I don't know why the recruitment team thought would be a great fit for the role. So essentially, we found that there's a lot of inefficiency in that process. So and so what, at that point of time, what with the thought was, hey, everybody is having a smartphone, they will probably have the kinds of smartphones we have today. But everybody is having smartphones and everybody's having internet, it would be cool if I could get get a better sense of whom I'm meeting beforehand. And the candidate also doesn't need to take these leave and plan to meet me when I'm there. If they could probably just take half an hour or 10 minutes to respond to a few set of questions and video, I could play that back and then let the candidate know that I'm really interested in meeting you. And that increases also their skin in the game, because now they know that this is a serious, they're the second round of the process. And they they, it's probably worth investing their time in that process. So that's that that was the initial idea. So we built an app. So I always wanted to be an entrepreneur. And I spoke to one of my friends from school, who was already in the talent measurement space. So he was building some interesting technology for a lot of test publishers. And so I discuss my problem statement with him. And we came up with an idea of building an app, which would allow companies to do what we today call a synchronous or recorded video interviews. This was around 12 years back from from their smartphone devices, and specifically focused on the sales hiring use case. So that that and so when, in a very short span of time, we were working with some of the largest pharma companies, some big insurance companies, because they all had this same problem statement, they all were doing distributed hiring, and there's a lot of, I would say, inefficiencies, both from the hiring managers, and recruiters as well as the candidates perspective and the process, which this could solve.

Kyle Roed:

Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, I think it's interesting, you know, now, it's, it's a little bit more commonplace, but you know, 12 years ago, that was the cutting edge, you wouldn't, you would be shocked to have that type of a process, you know, back then. So, you know, so I'm curious, you know, obviously, you've been at the forefront of, of that type of technology. As you look at the technological landscape, have you seen a significant amount of change? Or? Or are you? Or is it still kind of the same technology is just being utilized a little bit, you know, more heavily, like, what does that landscape look like?

Sanjoe Tom Jose:

I think over the years is, obviously, my own perspective was changed, evolved, whatever, is the right term for that. But essentially, today, my, from my vantage point, I see what I'm doing. And what talview does, is basically, is all about enabling every professional to build the best career for themselves. So if I, if I look, look back at my own career, I grew up in a very small village in India, and from there to working with some very large organizations and becoming an entrepreneur and being spending almost a decade in the Silicon Valley. I think I had to close a lot of barriers, a lot of, I had to, I had to be in the right place at the right time, for many of these things to align. And for me to achieve this, but it's but it was not easy. And I There are a lot of different. I would say it's not a barriers, when when you look at whether it's location, whether it's having the right information, whether it's having the right access, or the right, even the right device, when it comes to a professional finding the right job for themselves. So we want to build a platform, which essentially makes the process of panel measurement. And when I refer to tongue measurement, that's everything. All forms of measurement, which is used to make a decision about whom to hire whom to promote whom to certify whom to internally move to a new new role. We want to make that process as efficient and as effective as possible, as objective as possible. And that's, and I think, from that standpoint, that a lot is today already being enabled by technology, especially when it comes to efficiency. There's a lot of a lot of capabilities, a lot of automation being brought in with these enabling organizations to reach out to a much larger pool of talent, ensure that a lot more people can be part of the process. But at the same time, I think there's a lot more that can be done in terms of effectiveness of the process. Most of the decision making Remember all of the decision making needs driven through humans and humans have their own biases, as we all know, we are going through as a species, we are going through such a radical pace of change. And we are used to working with people of the same time working with people of a certain culture, but all of a sudden, with changing technology, and with all the changes which are happening around us, we are working in God global organizations with people from different regions, different cultures, different backgrounds and for, for somebody to overcome all the unconscious bias, which is kind of baked into their, their wiring as a part of evolution as a species, that becomes one of the biggest hurdles for objective decision making when it comes to balance mesh, data measurement, data management today. So I think the lot more which can be done from that standpoint, and that's where a lot of our focus is right now. Yeah,

Kyle Roed:

yeah, I think that's a really, that's a powerful, you know, a powerful way to approach it. Clearly, you're doing something right, the, you know, talview interview insights was awarded top product of the year here in September from HR executive organization, the top HR Product of the Year. So, you know, I'll give you a little bit of a, you know, kudos there. And, you know, it's, it's really looking at that, but but also utilizing AI. And, you know, so So I'm curious to understand a little bit more about how that works. Because, you know, AI, I think it's been, you know, it's kind of, like, got a little bit of a bad name, and, you know, you'll read these articles about how AI, you know, can, can screen out, you know, good candidates inadvertently or cause, you know, some level of inadvertent bias so, so how does your system use AI, while making sure that, you know, it is inclusive and and that we are addressing some of those implicit biases.

Sanjoe Tom Jose:

Yeah. And then more traditional approach towards AI is using AI to make decisions. Whether it's home to hire or which resume to filter or how to score a particular application, we have taken a completely different approach where saying that bias is already in the system, even AI is bias comes from the data which is generated by us to train our train that AI so bias is in the system. But can we turn it around and use AI to actually understand all the biases, which is happening in the hiring process? So now, let's take an interview process, right. So that's interviewing is probably 90% of time when decisions are being made, be being done using interviews, but it's also the probably the biggest blind blind spot in the hiring process, because most interviewers do not get any formal interview training. And we are all of us have our own biases. And nobody is monitoring how, whether you have the right interviewing technique, whether you exhibiting any form of bias when you're doing interviews, or even how successful you were, with respect to you made 10 recommendations and how many of them actually worked out for the company and did not. So I think it's one of the biggest blind spot in the hiring process. So what we tried to do, and I think we've had a lot of early success with interview insights, the product you're referring to, is to use that to analyze every interview, which happens on our interviewing platform, and build a feedback loop for the interviewer on every aspect, right from the interviewing techniques are the basics, like are they even greeting the candidate? Are they explaining about the interview process? Are they? are they responding to the candidates? And are they talking too much or too less to looking at? Hey, are you using language which is probably repelling a candidate of a particular gender or a particular age? Or you're asking questions that you're not supposed to ask from a legal and compliance standpoint. So, so build a feedback loop which helps interviewers to continuously improve their interviewing technique, are they asking follow up questions, what are what are the best interview techniques from from an interview question structuring standpoint are they covering all if, if a job requires five skills, and you are you had the entire interview around one skill and now we are making the recommendation of hire or no hire based on that conversation? That's not a valid I would say measurement so. So bring bringing all of this natural language processing and AI capabilities to analyze every interview and build the feedback loop for the interview. If they can get better, and through that, remove the bias in the process. But more more importantly, improve the quality of hiring so that organizations can make much better decisions when it comes to home their hiring.

Kyle Roed:

That's absolutely fascinating. Also, for me, like little threatening, because it's like, you know, I do a lot of interviews, and I would just hope I would score okay, but I don't know, I guess that to find out.

Sanjoe Tom Jose:

Like, everyone, even the best interviewer has scope for further improvement. So I think at the end of the day, this is a personal dashboard for the interviewer. So I'm assuming I'm pretty sure that you will also want to ensure that you're doing the best interviews, you could?

Kyle Roed:

Well, I think it's really important. And you know, and, you know, you know, some of the listeners might say, Kyle, you need this now, you know, for this podcast, so that, you know, you get through all the questions you want to ask, but I do think, you know, one of the things that I've always said over the years has has been, you know, when somebody asks me, was somebody a good interviewer? You know, it's really hard to answer that honestly, and say, Yes, that was a good interview, or or no, that was a bad interview. A lot of times, what you're really actually responding to is did you like that person? Right, as opposed to, is this actually a good interview? Or a bad interview? Are they a good fit or a bad fit? You know, that it's, if you're not, like, intellectually honest with yourself, that there is that extreme level of human human bias in a typical interview process? You know, you're gonna make bad hires. I mean, that's just that's the reality, you know, you can't hire, you know, there's all all the research on the halo effect and the horn effect, and all of these, you know, kind of these cognitive biases that just exist as human beings. Yeah. So I'm, I'm fascinated, I'm fascinated in this in this in this approach, because it is really different than anything that I've heard of before. So what gave you what gave you this idea that, hey, maybe AI can be used in this manner, as opposed to actually making making a decision? I think,

Sanjoe Tom Jose:

but part of it is just, I have been doing interviews, probably I would have probably done 1000s of interviews in the past decade, and trying to build value and the organizations before that. And I always, I've always tried to build my own techniques to ensure that I'm doing a good quality interview, but I never was satisfied. All these things that are, when I look at an interview, there are essentially three components to the interview, right? The first is, or three outcomes that you're looking for. One is to ensure that we are able to make an objective decision about whether the candidate is the right fit for the role, which is the quality of the interview itself. Two ways to ensure that interviewing is also a two way street. So the candidate also needs to like you and like your organization. So are you delivering the right candidate experience? are you pitching the job and the company in the right manner? are you ensuring that the person has a good view of what they're getting into? So the candidate experience is a key element when it comes to interviews? And three is as an organization and daleview. And I think every other organization out there, we are all committed to building a more equitable, more diverse future. That's the world we all want to live in? And are you? Are you complying with all of those aspects? are you ensuring that you're being you are nurturing and promoting diversity and inclusion through the hiring process? So these three I would say are broadly the outcomes which you look for, from interviews standpoint, and if I as an interviewer, I found it very difficult for me to stay consistent with all of these aspects you get into it, the discussions can get sidetracked or become very, I would say niche based on how the conversations go. So I, and when, when, when when when I started talking to our customers about the same problem statement, I found that they're all challenged by the same issues especially, we are working with a lot of customers who are involved in high volume hiring retail organizations. So this is organizations healthcare organization. So you are relying on a store manager or a store executi or a regional manager who probably had one to two years, sometimes three years of experience in the job itself, to do interviews and bring in people and make decisions on on behalf of the company, but none of us are trained psychometricians right. If you're a trained psychometrician you can probably make more objective decisions. So we found that organizations are having significant issues with their quality of hires, they're having significant candidate drop off in spite of, especially in the last two years with how the ballot market has been. The significant offer dropout in spite of liking candidate and giving an awful awful And also, we've found that while everybody has a lot of BI mandates, diversity and inclusion mandates on the ground implementing it and ensuring that your organization is staying with it was a big challenge. So that's essentially where we found that there's a, and we, we, we knew that technology existed, we have used similar linguistic based techniques elsewhere in the hiring process. So we knew that we could solve these for for everyone, including talview. And that's how we, we start building individual sites.

Kyle Roed:

It's really fascinating. And you're preaching to the choir on, you know, all all of those problems, statements, or conversations that I've had, at some point, with somebody in my career about how do we improve this? And a lot of times, the answer is, well, we just try to do better. Right, but it's like, actually, you know, actually having a tool to provide, you know, consistent, you know, relevant, time based feedback to the people that are actually conducting an interview. For me a little bit of a game changer. Yeah. You know, and I think, you know, you think about the DEI, let's just, like, unpack just the DEI challenge, you know, and, you know, we're all tracking, you know, we're all tracking demographics, we've all got, you know, hopefully have some KPIs that we're looking at for di, but But it's all reactive, you know, it's like, well, how many have we hired, that are diverse? How, you know, how many programs have we implemented that drive inclusion? You know, it's not necessarily, it's not necessarily proactive, right. And so I think this, you know, for an organization that's really trying to solve the problem of implicit bias in the selection process, you know, whether that's internal external promotion, you know, whatever, can be pretty powerful. What kind of what kind of results have you have you seen with organizations that have have have implemented something like this and started to think differently about AI in HR.

Sanjoe Tom Jose:

So, the first metric which you have seen significant improvement is candidate experience rating, and which has them, we have seen also a significant impact on conversion, like offer the number of dropouts, offer dropouts, and significantly come down for customers. So for example, from a candidate experience rating standpoint, because there's some metric which we capture on values interviewing platform, we've seen almost 30% increase in the average rating on experience given by candidates, whether as a part of the hiring process, and almost 30% within three months of implementation 30% increase in offer conversion. So that that that that was a leading metric, nurse when we implemented this to, from a candidate quality standpoint, and we thought we were tracking it at multiple levels. But the the leading metric, which we saw was essentially that, typically, if, if you have an interview process where the recruiter does the first phone interview, and then it goes to the hiring manager, and in a lot of high volume hiring that typically is the traditional process, the conversion from first round interview to second round interview. So essentially, if a recruiter recommended, let's say, X percentage of X number of candidates, the hiring manager agreeing to that they're the right recommendation that has gone up significantly formula for customer, which means the quality of interviews, which the recruiters are doing as a part of the process is much better. So we, for one of our retail customers, we saw that that went up by almost have as high as 45%. So from a quality of interviewing standpoint, and we were also tracking from a diversity standpoint, traditionally, there was this customer who was, well, primer, who did DIA is a key mandate for them. And they have been trying to influence that by bringing in more candidates at the top of the funnel. But the conversion at the end of the day wasn't that great. And they were able to improve their di mix in terms of final hire significantly after implementing the process.

Kyle Roed:

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I gotta believe that there's, you know, there's, there's got to be some impact. You know, it's really interesting. So, my organization today we're distributed, we're all over the world. You know, it's like, I don't have an HR person that can sit in and observe and help support all of the interviews that occur, right, which, you know, what, what's interesting is, you know, this AI that you're talking about, it's really just trying to help fill the gap that HR is trying to fill when they're sitting in an interview trying to make sure somebody doesn't say the wrong thing or ask the wrong question or coach, a new leader that's maybe never interviewed before. You know, which, and quite frankly, that's super time consuming for HR. There's got to be an ROI just you know, in reduction of headaches, as it relates to that. So So that's a really application or really interesting application rather for for, for AI. I'm curious just to kind of understand, you know, as you look at the rest of the landscape in HR tech, what are some other technologies that are that are really kind of coming to the forefront now that you see a really big opportunity to make some waves in our world?

Sanjoe Tom Jose:

I think from the web, we are seeing the job landscape or the talent landscape is evolving, there is a lot more focus on skills. Because the the end there, I would say what we traditionally used to call called gig economy or things like that, I think we don't call them the same after the pandemic, we just call them remote work. But essentially, there's a lot more focus on skills and what skills people require to do specific jobs, because jobs are also evolving very fast with and largely influenced, again, by technology, but we're working with customers who are redesigning all of their jobs almost every three years. And that kind of an environment, I think, having a very strong skill based or skill, ontology based approach to talent management, is going to be crucial. So that that's something which you're seeing more being more and more prominent and relevant, and something which looks like it's going to be a crucial component of every organization, standard management in future how do you use skills, whether it's for hiring, whether it's used for internal talent management, whether it's for planning any of those aspects? So I think that's that's something which we are which we are looking at very closely. The other aspect which we are also kind of looking at very curiously is now we have this flexible work culture where people are not always in in person, you probably have teams, which are fully remote and always remote and you have a lot of engagement strategies, which are primarily driven around in person interactions probably need to have a virtual component involved in that and how do you create and curate experiences which do not differentiate between whether your employees in person or whether they are remote? Whether fully or on particular days? I think that it that's an area which we were looking at very closely, like Metaverse, or how do you, like, help people to at the end of the day, as humans, we all need to connect with each other, we all need to interact and exchange ideas and thoughts in a particular manner. And in a physical world, when we are in office, it's not just about these meetings, or the zoom calls, the equivalent of Meet the in person meetings, today's zoom calls, but you also hang out around the water cooler, you also like have to chat on the office floor. So how do you how do you simulate a lot of those interactions? In a more hybrid world? is I think something which is very interesting.

Kyle Roed:

Yeah, you know, I would agree i, the first person that can figure out how to make virtual interactions feel like water cooler talk. Yeah, you know, that's, that's it, right? Like that, like, staring at everybody on a, you know, on a flat 2d screen, and like having these pre scheduled meetings. It's just not the same, you know, but and I have yet to find a solution that really does that. But, you know, I do think that there is something to the metaverse that, you know, it's going to be an element of our lives. At a minimum, all the smart devices that we have are going to be, you know, facilitating connection and interaction in some way, shape or form in the workplace. You know, and, and, you know, trying to keep cell phones out of the workplace, like, you know, you know, good luck with that. It's just not going to happen.

Sanjoe Tom Jose:

Yeah. And the key also is, I think, trying to, we probably do not need the same exact experience as the physical world. But we probably need the same exact outdoors. And it's probably going to get easier with newer generations coming into the workforce because they're already used to whether it's my minecraft or

Kyle Roed:

Roblox for my 10 year old.

Sanjoe Tom Jose:

They used to have engaging and building communities on those platforms. So I think you probably get easier for HR. So

Kyle Roed:

yeah, I do think that's, I think that's gonna be it's interesting. It's also one of those things too, that I'm sure a lot Are HR professionals listening to this? I know exactly what I'm talking about where that also brings a whole nother element into the workplace that maybe you didn't have to deal with in the workplace, you know, things like social media arguments, and politics, and, you know, all these kinds of things that are kind of trickling in. But I just, you know, I think it's just going to be extremely fascinating. And and I do think, you know, that maybe to close out the, the kind of the primary part of the discussion, it's, you know, as human resources, we got to be open to this stuff. You know, we can't just assume AI. Oh, I heard that's not good. Right. Well, AI used the wrong way as bad AI use the right way is good. Right. It's up to us as humans to make the decision on how to leverage it correctly. And so I think that's, you know, maybe my takeaway is, we can't cast this with a broad brush. We've got to be open minded to to the application here.

Sanjoe Tom Jose:

I agree.

Kyle Roed:

Well, it's been a fantastic conversation, but you're a super busy guy, you got a company to run you probably founding something else right now as we speak. So I want to be mindful of your time. We're going to shift gears, we're going to go into the rebel HR flash round. Are you ready? I'm ready. All right, perfect. Question number one, where does HR need to rebell.

Sanjoe Tom Jose:

I personally believe that the role of HR is going to be significantly more important in the future than today. But talview, the number of people we have in the people, we call it people success internally, function has doubled in the last one year, and that with with remote work with new age, a new generation is coming to work. I think the nuances of making people successful is becoming more complex. And as an HR professional, you would be successful if you adopt more technology. And if you stay at the forefront of figuring out how to use all these technologies to help your organization be successful. So I think by being being the rebel from an from the pace at which people are at our fraternity adopt technology, staying ahead of the curve, there is really the key here.

Kyle Roed:

Yeah, absolutely. I couldn't agree more. So it's been you know, it's one of those things over the last few years, we really have seen HR I love that people success. I love that as the as the title for your human resources department. We've we've really been thrust to the forefront of some of the things that have been happening in the world social unrest, COVID, you know, mental health crisis? You know, it's, and, you know, I don't see that changing. But you know, we've got to, we've got to be open minded to the tools that can help us. Alright, question number two, who should we be listening to?

Sanjoe Tom Jose:

My favorite HR tech, thought leaders, Josh Burson, of obviously, somebody who's been tracking very closely and always been ahead of the curve, in terms of thinking about technology in the HR space. So David Savage is somebody else who's been interested in. So those are some of the top of the mind needs.

Kyle Roed:

Awesome. You have to have to check those out for sure. Last question here. So we've talked a lot about some of the work you do and you know, in the product that you produce, how can our listeners connect with you learn more about some of the work you do?

Sanjoe Tom Jose:

I'm very active on LinkedIn, I try to share thoughts, exchange ideas, and also connect with people as much as I can. I'm a people person. So I would love to connect with anybody and share ideas, debate or any of that on LinkedIn or on Twitter as

Kyle Roed:

well. Absolutely. And we will have all that information in the show notes. We'll have links and you know, open up your podcast player, click in St. Joe. It's been just an absolutely wonderful conversation, I think really insightful really helps kind of reshape how I think about, you know, AI in the HR tech space in general, and I really appreciate you helping us and learn today.

Sanjoe Tom Jose:

Wonderful. Thanks for hosting.

Kyle Roed:

Thank you. All right, that does it for the rebel HR podcast. Big thank you to our guests. Follow us on Facebook at rebel HR podcast, Twitter, at rebel HR guy, or see our website at rebel human resources.com. The views and opinions expressed by rebel HR podcast are those the authors and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any of the organizations that we represent. No animals were harmed during the filming of this podcast. Maybe