RHR 161: The Human Connection Scientist, Jacques Martiquet

Jacques Martiquet: 0:00

If people don't participate, and they feel like you're forcing fun on them, then it's going to be a negative experience. And if you force people to be vulnerable and you force people to move their bodies and like you just suddenly change things, people are going to be jarred. I think it needs to come from an angle of shared effort shared decision making and building receptivity in the teeth. A lot of people will say, don't try and change people if they don't want to change. The truth is you can change people's receptivity to change in baby steps.

Kyle Roed: 0:31

This is the rebel HR Podcast, the podcast where we talk to HR innovators about all things people leadership. If you're looking for places to find about new ways to think about the world of work, this is the podcast for you. Please subscribe on your favorite podcast listening platform today. And leave us a review revelon HR rebels Welcome back revel HR listeners, this is going to be super, super fun. I cannot wait to get into the conversation here with us we have Jack Martock. A, he is the chief connection scientist, and an international joy and belonging facilitator for his for his company. We're gonna be talking all about that he also goes by the moniker, the party scientist. But that is all PG.

Jacques Martiquet: 1:20

Don't worry about that. Okay.

Kyle Roed: 1:23

I did warn him, I'm going to call him that just because I love that in the LinkedIn intro. So thank you so much, Jack, for for joining us today. Just from the conversation before I hit record, I can tell this is going to be a ton of fun. But before we get into that, I want to understand what drove you to found an organization that is focused on international joy and belonging.

Jacques Martiquet: 1:47

Kyle, thanks so much for the intro and the warm conversation beforehand. It's yeah, it's great to witness that you've developed some relational intelligence over you know, the 160 episodes that you've done here. Yeah, so So first off, I kind of have two personas here. Earlier in my career, I was known as the party scientist. And I discovered that title for myself after being a medic at music festivals for about four years. And I was in a lot of demanding situations where people's lives were at risk, and I was responsible for helping them. As a medic, I saw how, like, how social norms sometimes don't fuel fuel us with with energy and with joy and with true connection. And that motivated me to go on this sober partying, like sober partying, evangelism mission. And that was about two years of my life when I was younger. And then what kept happening was companies kept requesting me to bring these new connection practices into their businesses, universities asked me, and it really evolved away from partying to new connection methods that leverage joy and leverage music and leverage some of the social neuroscience of connection, but are just a little bit more grounded in the health benefits of connection versus just like, well, let's, let's like be ecstatic hippies, like, well, how can we ground that and give that to people who need it most. So now I call myself the chief connection scientist. And I want to equip leaders with with better tools with with science based tools for team building. And I also I'm really passionate about re conceptualizing redefining how we view wellness, how we view wellness, right? Because oftentimes, wellness, it's viewed from an individual's perspective and human connection, the shared experience, the relationships, it's almost like a different category of our lives, right? Like wellness, as you know, we think of meditation we think of calm, we think of doing a yoga class, versus the wellness that I'm creating. It's all about exchanging joy and energy and vulnerability among participants. There Yeah.

Kyle Roed: 4:34

I love it, you know, and I think it's, it's really fascinating because, I mean, you see these research studies and and they talk about longevity, right? And, and it's fascinating that if you look at some of those studies, it's like, well, obviously, exercise eat well, like there's some of these things that we all know, you know, that's that's, that's one of the factors that helps people live longer. But what's so fascinating is if you look at the People who really live longest, they have really healthy relationships. Right? Which, which tells you that there is something deeper to relationships than just like, oh, I enjoy it. Right? So, So walk me through kind of that this this the actual science of connection, why is this so important to us?

Jacques Martiquet: 5:18

Yeah, thanks for bringing up the longevity research, I'm now going to have to leave this podcast to go get married, because that's a big priority for my oh yeah,

Kyle Roed: 5:30

so excuse me

Jacques Martiquet: 5:34

that's a big piece marriages, or just committed committed long term relationships are very nourishing. Now, the other side of the coin is, is we can develop the ability to create nourishing interactions with strangers to be vulnerable to, to be super energized by interactions with people we just find on the street. And there's actually a lot of data on talking to your Uber drivers talking to people on public transit, that can boost your mood. And this is positive psychology research. If you look up positive psychology, talking to strangers on transit, it impacts your mood for the rest of the day. And so, you know, beyond these facilitation methods that I want to equip managers with, I'm also I really want to inspire people to go out in the world and see all the opportunities to connect and and to be energised by, by strangers by by these small interactions, these small opportunities for getting those health benefits of human connections. And in sharing that, I forgot your last question. What was it?

Kyle Roed: 6:46

I don't even know. I'm just enjoying the conversation. So I mean, it sounded it sounded great. We're just going to call it good. But I do they fit. I think it's, you know, it's fascinating. I remember, you know, I think back to when I was a kid. And and your story prompted a memory of mine. And it was a situation where I was out with my parents and my, my, my stepdad would talk to anybody. He's just one of those guys. Right. And he was I have a similar stepdad. Yeah, it was when I was a kid,

Jacques Martiquet: 7:18

embarrass my stepdad gets embarrassed, though, when I talk to people. But God, I love that your

Kyle Roed: 7:23

mind is not. Yeah, my mind was the guy that like we were still stranded. We were on like, I don't know, Miracle on Ice or something like that, like an ice skating event. And he, he stops the car parks the car, gets out and asked my mom to dance and just dances and turns the radio up in the middle of stops traffic, right? This guy has no shame. So, but at the time, it's just so it's like weird, right? You're a kid? You're like, what is going on? But they were always so happy. Right? And thank goodness, they're still alive. Right? And I think there's I don't think there's a coincidence that they find joy in interacting and connecting with other people and connecting with each other. And they are still here and thriving. Right. So I just think powerful. I think it's a powerful concept that I'm blessed that I had an opportunity to see when I was kid.

Jacques Martiquet: 8:10

What what, what an amazing role model for for love. I think very few of us. I certainly didn't have role models for love for healthy relationships. You know, my parents divorced when I was about 12. You know, there was kind of a legal battle, but I didn't really see them in love ever. There's a few things I want to emphasize. First of all, I love the word use thriving. I think thriving is my preferred word overwhelmingness. Because thriving, thriving means like, Oh, I'm gonna go dance in the rain with my friends. Like I have vitality. Like I'm alive, my eyes are open. And I'm excited. Like that's what thriving is. And what I'm trying to do is give community leaders the ability to create that that sense of energy that like we are, we are thriving right now. We're engaged, we're excited, like we're, we're passionate. And then I want to also the memory that pops into my mind, thanks to you is I recently drove around with a friend and we opened up the doors blasted music and dance to in public so that was super fun and and all the people in public just smile and start dancing to so. So I've done the same. So

Kyle Roed: 9:35

by the way, they listen to this podcast. So Dennis, I love you, man. Love you too, mom. All right. So that's done. I can try. So all kidding aside, you know what we'll shift back to the point of the podcast, I guess. But, you know, I am curious because one of the big challenges that we are facing right now in workplaces is is this this problem of connection and there's such a focus on on employee experience and retention and culture, and and really trying to like, like, like, build these thriving cultures, within our, our workplaces, but it's it's just seems like such an insurmountable task at times. And so, so as you are helping these organizations figure out how to build a culture that drives connection, where where do you start? Like, how do you tackle this, this problem that that many of us face? In a significant amount?

Jacques Martiquet: 10:37

Yeah, yeah. Well, I think it all begins with, with the psychology and the beliefs, the limiting beliefs of the leaders and and how we been indoctrinated. positively and negatively, to see connection, like, how, how have social norms shaped you, in your socialization and your connections with people at work with with your friends, I mean, a lot of people are very inhibited, and they're inhibited by social norms, right? Certain times, it's just not acceptable to do certain things. You know, we're always afraid of being too much and provide, you know, TMI too much information if we're vulnerable. So, we have a lot of limiting beliefs about human connection. And those beliefs prevent us from taking social risks. So what I'm first curious about is, what are our beliefs about human connection? And and how have they been shaped by the media? How have they been annihilated by social media? How have you know, how have the maybe the downers in our organization, prevented us from introducing new ways of connecting? Like, like, ceremony like exercises, right. So that I think is key. And I think the core belief, the core belief that holds a lot of leaders back is that if they just create the time and space, meaningful connection will happen. And that's that they don't want to intrude more than that, right? Like, if they just create the time and space and this, you know, like, I've had a lot of clients, and I've helped them produce events, internal events, and that's their strategy. They just create the time and space and they let people do their thing. And they presume that deeper connections will happen. But often they don't. And so my goal, my goal, when I'm helping clients, we're not trying to connect people. Hold on hold on here. What is the what is the hilarious? It's, it's a dilemma. It's, it's a paradox. The paradox of the 21st century is that we're inundated with connection, we have connection, accessible, 24/7 Instant Messaging, we can call people through our smartphones, we're surrounded by people, usually in cities, like I live in an apartment building, my neighbors are here, I'm surrounded by people. And yet, loneliness continues to rise, people, especially youth, and and, you know, we could talk about social media about that. But the point is, we're not trying to create connections, we're trying to create a certain type of connection that nourishes the body. And that floods the body with healthy neurotransmitters that create emotional bonds, that create authentic bonds, where we kind of feel like people care about us, we feel like they have our back. And, you know, one can say that this is psychological safety. But oftentimes, Kyle, psychological safety is just used in the context of brainstorming and problem solving, and bringing up you know, difficult comments and and challenging people. But really, psychological safety is also about making jokes, having fun being authentic, like it's it's so fundamental for relationships. So to summarize all that. There's limiting beliefs that prevent us from changing from introducing new ways of connecting our employees. And one of those big limiting beliefs is I don't have to do anything. I just need to create more time and space for people to connect. When really, there's all these other methods that can help us create deeper connections.

Kyle Roed: 14:58

I think that's a really That's a really fascinating point. And as you mentioned that it is it's interesting because if you just, I'm just I'm just thinking, like, if I take a case study of one right here, and I think about, okay, what is my work life looked like, from like, five years ago to now. And it does not look the same as it did it and I am, I'm interacting with more people on a daily basis, in a day than I probably didn't a week, five years ago, because I used to have to travel to see people and in order to have like, these types of like, conversations that I'm having, you know, we didn't necessarily have the tools embedded within our business to do it. But now I can like, and I'm like plowing through like 30 minutes meetings. You know, bang, bang, bang all day long. Like, there are days where it's like eight to four, all meetings all day long. And it's but it is all connection. But it's but it's like, oftentimes, it feels very hollow, right? And it's like, it's transactional. It's like, oh, meaning don't check that meaning. Don't check that. But But so often, there's not this, like authentic opportunity to truly connect. And I Yeah, the social media thing, like, that's another one. If you want to be miserable, just go on social media. You know, everybody, like everybody that spends all their day on social media. I just feel like it's just, it's just not good for you, right? So I get that comment. I'm curious, you know, as a leader, and I have a team myself, and certainly, part of my job is helping leaders understand these these types of concepts and how to leverage them at work. As opposed to just making the space for it or or allowing connection to happen. How can we intentionally foster this true type of authentic connection that you're describing

Jacques Martiquet: 16:52

here? I love the word you chose intentionality. intentionality is one of my favorite words when it comes to building authentic, authentic care connections and building really emotionally connected teams. I do want to answer your question, I also just want to come back to what you said about this, this meeting. inundation, right, like people are just overwhelmed with, with communication, and with meetings, right? I know, some of my friends who are on seven different chat platforms. And they're just like, it just seems to me, I, I biohack my way out of this, like, I just use whatsapp and I have a lot of strategies in place. But it just seems to me like there's this general sense of overwhelm. And we're being overwhelmed with communication with meetings. And my my hope, I believe that meetings can become energizing parts of our day. And, and part of my research is on like, how can we make that happen? But back to your question, how do we begin to, you know, get intentional about building these authentic connections. And, you know, we need this to be bottom up, first of all, and so my first step for any leader who wants to change the social norms in their teeth, or change the nature of a team's gatherings is it's got to be conceptual, it's got and the first step is always motivating people to participate, motivating people to participate. And so when I am facilitating a group, and they don't know me, I am doing things to change their physiology, I'm doing things to to get them excited, I'm explaining to them exactly what I'm trying to do, and why and how it's gonna benefit them. And then they're enrolled. And then they participate in all my activities. And finally, at the end, like people are singing, people are singing at each other on Zoom, and if they were seen by people who weren't on the Zoom call, like they would call a psychiatrist. So, so, I think the first step Kyle before introducing like, I'm the party scientist, I have all these tools, games exercises, you know, like my five core methods, mindfulness, gratitude, movement, celebration, and authentic relating, that's my five stage method. Each of those tools if you Google it, there's a bunch of activities that you can use. Now before getting Add to all this technical tool stuff, it's like, if people don't participate, and they feel like you're forcing fun on them, then it's going to be a negative experience. And if you force people to be vulnerable, and you force people to move their bodies, and like you just suddenly, you know, change things, people are going to be jarred. And so I think it needs to come from an angle of shared effort shared decision making, and and building receptivity in the teeth. Like, a lot of people will say, oh, like, don't try and change people if they don't want to change, right, you've heard that quote before? Sure. Well, the truth is, you can change people's receptivity to change. Right? in baby steps, so that would be my first actionable step. I mean, do you have anything to add? What what would what would you do to motivate your team? Like, yeah, I'm just

Kyle Roed: 21:03

Well, right now, I'm just sitting here, just reflecting on my staff meetings. I'm like, Man, I could do way better than that. Because a lot of times, it's, well, a lot of times you get into a meeting. And there's some hopefully, there's some form of agenda. Like, hopefully, there's a reason for the meeting. But a lot of times, it's people are, they're like, you know, it's like malicious compliance. It's like, I have to go to this meeting. So I'm going to sit in this meeting, and I will participate if I feel like it. And I will task and I will answer all of these emails that I had, because I just got 40 in the last 30 minutes, and I was on a meeting before this, right. And I honestly, sometimes that's my day, I'm like, I can't even like it's like, I've got 13 different things, you know, I literally have three screens, right? And so I'm like, which 1am? I looking at? Just so you know, Jack, I am just focused on this conversation right now. I'm not responding to emails. So I am taking notes. Yeah, but I am not. Sorry.

Jacques Martiquet: 21:56

This is actually the chat VT for version of Jack. Oh, real, real Jack is actually throwing a dance party, right?

Kyle Roed: 22:06

Oh, my gosh, if I could figure out how to do that, and just have that do that. But I would totally do an entire podcast series, and just have it like, learn my questioning style, off the last like 100 and whatever episodes and then see if it works. That's I am so in, we should do, we should do a podcast and just set it up and just run it and just see what happens. And it'll probably get more downloads,

Jacques Martiquet: 22:29

I want to I want to come back to your staff meetings. But I want to build off this point, you're talking about all the screens and all the emails. And I think there's something to say here about how the overwhelm prevents us from creating these authentic connections. But because it's just there's no time there's, and that's something that I am, you know, I've worked in the corporate world for a total of eight months, my life, like, I haven't experienced, I've experienced overwhelm, but the degree of the corporate overwhelm, I haven't. And I'm interested in exploring that with you. Because I think that if people were less stressed by the number of emails and just the pressure, the pressure that team members are facing, then they they probably create more of these authentic connections. Now, to a degree, it's not practical to do that it would require a big changes. So but just a question I have for you.

Kyle Roed: 23:39

Yeah. Well, I would tell you this. So you know, and I've, you know, I've been in corporate world for 20 years now. Wow. Yeah. At any rate, it is like it every year, it seems like it gets more and more overwhelming. And I think that that is that's a I don't I think that's a symptom. I don't think that's a bug. I think it's just like the way it is, especially the higher you know, the higher level you get, the more problems you have, the bigger the problems get, the more people the bigger ripple, you have, you know, the stress elevates, certainly. But I would say, you know, to that point, there is absolutely a general sense of overwhelm. And the tendency that I've seen is, as opposed to like addressing the root cause of the of being overwhelmed. You have more meetings to figure out how you can not be overwhelmed. Right. And that becomes like the the cure all when at the end of the day. It may not be I mean, I'll give you an example. So we just, we just had a management meeting not too long ago, and one of the topics was communication. And one of the items that we were discussing was how do we know how long to schedule a meeting for, right? Like there are meetings that could be five minutes long, and work good, but every meeting is like 30 minutes minimum, right? If so can we actually just schedule meetings for five minutes? If that's all it is, and then just force us to be like, super efficient, and then have 25 free minutes to go, you know what I mean? Like, so it's like, I think a lot of it has to do with these, the systematization of these communication structures. One, one example, you mentioned people with like seven chat, chat things. Like, we killed, we had like, three, we killed two of them, we only have one, right? Because it's just too much. And you'll have people in, you'll have one person you like, one random person uses one chat system. But if you don't have it up, you'll miss it. And it could be important, you know, so it's just like, it's like, simplification, I think is the key. But, but I also think so, going back to the comments on connection, like authentic connection, so a really good friend

Jacques Martiquet: 25:48

of mine, were talking about your staff, your staff meeting? Yeah, we got Yeah, so

Kyle Roed: 25:52

friendly. You're a really good friend of mine, you know, she, she was asking me something about, you know, tell, tell me about yourself, like one of those questions, right? Like, tell me, tell me more about yourself. Everything I told her was about work. Right. And that's a, that's a byproduct of the the context that I was thinking about the question and, and she's like, Oh, no, no, no, no work. Who are you? Perfect. Right. And when you take that, like when you take the lens of work off, and people actually tell you, Oh, well, I have three kids. And I have two cats. And and, you know, I love I love line dancing or whatever random like fun fact, like, then that's where like, it's like, oh, that's quirky. I liked that. I liked you. You know, it's like stuff like that. And that's, that's where I found like, the real connectivity happens. And ultimately, I believe that's how you foster some business success off of that, honestly, because people, people do better when they like working with the people they work with.

Jacques Martiquet: 26:52

Yeah, yeah. Hi, I just want to share a quote, from my article, the guide to corporate human connection strategy, perfectly, exemplifies what you're talking about here. And I'm talking about how to catalyze this thought, through through by leaders creating some form of guide rails or permission, right? When we're leading your group, we have the ability to create permission for people to behave differently. And so this is the quote, this is the thought that exemplifies what you're talking about this personal connection? Wow, I never knew that about her. I want to get to know her more. I'm curious about her. I like this person, she has things to teach me. I wonder how many others on my team are like this, and I just didn't know. Right? Oftentimes, when we humanize each other, and we have more context to each other's lives, we can be more motivated to connect. Now, on the flip side of that, knowing people is not enough to feel super connected to feel right, feel connected. So you know, the other social norm that plagues the corporate world is that we're going to create really nourishing connections, if we just rely on conversation. Right? Conversation is like the main way that we can act in Western culture. But it's actually it's it's actually very little of the generator of the social neurotransmitters. Like, really, it's all the nonverbals and it's the touch and it's the shared emotion and like you and I ca we've laughed a bunch in this conversation, right? So like conversation is is not it's kind of this like middleman for what actually is generating the neurotransmitters, right? Like the oxytocin, endorphins that dopamine Joy neurotransmitters. So one thing that I advocate often is, well, let's let's expand let's expand beyond conversation or let's let's be more intentional with conversation, right? I

Kyle Roed: 29:21

think that's really fascinating. So in you know, I'm, I'm curious I'm curious how you get over the hurdle of the discomfort, the natural corporate discomfort with the nonverbals or the physical touch, let's, let's preface that physical perfectly. Right. But But, but I mean, even that statement kind of gets to my point, right. It's like there's there's been such a concern around too much connection, right. So it's almost like it's like we want like connection light, right? Like we want all the benefits of connection without the actual Like, connection work, right? Or the or the real stuff like the, the real humanity in the workplace, which, you know, we were talking about this before hit record like, this is in the workplace now, it's always been there. But you know, things like mental health challenges, addiction challenges people who are who are lonely or contemplating, you know, catastrophic harm, and things like that because they're lonely like, like, now we're hearing about this as employers and a much larger level than we were when I first started in my in my career, but my argument is like, it's always been there. But now we're just Okay, now we're actually just talking about it. So, you know, I believe I'm hopeful that this will foster some actions, so that we can help address these issues. So as you think about kind of these big things that corporations are wrestling with, or organizations are wrestling with, how do you address that? And, but still drive these connections in a way that allows for that real, authentic connection?

Jacques Martiquet: 31:05

This is, this is this is a tough question, Kyle.

Kyle Roed: 31:11

Say best for last man.

Jacques Martiquet: 31:13

a solopreneur. I don't work I you know, at one point in my life, I wanted to work for Big Pharma. But I never declined my internship. Wow, no, this is this is an ingenious question and the dilemma of how much connection is appropriate? should I should I ask this really personal question, or am I gonna make my coworker uncomfortable, and then I'm gonna get red flagged, you know what I'm saying? I mean, okay, so there's a lot of a preface, I'll preface my exploration here with with two quotes. My mentor who's Kim, her name's Kimberly. And she is she is a radical facilitator for these Japanese multinationals. Kimberly waif Ling, and she shared this quote with me in a workshop. And she said it in this tone of voice, she said, You don't know your coworker has cancer, you're not on a team. So I have that in my article. And then the next quote that I want to talk about is this, this, this, this common, this, this universal human experience, of not having it together. So So here, here's the quote, we may not have it all together, but together we have at all. And so I think that, you know, in my development, and journey of self acceptance, I just accept that sometimes I don't have it together. You know, even though I teach, I teach people about how than like meditation, and you know, I, I'm kind of the guy for all that stuff I don't have together sometimes. And I feel like there's this like denial that this is what the human experience is, like. So I'll pause there. Any, any, anything you want to jump on.

Kyle Roed: 33:16

But I love that. Yeah. I just think, you know, the older I get, the more I realize, everybody's just making it up as they go along. Right? You know, I mean, it's, there are legitimately amazing people out there that are like, like, brilliant and wonderful, but but for the most part, like, we're, we're kind of careening through life a little bit. And it's all about, like, it's just, it's just how you react to stimulus. That's the whole that's, that's entirety of life. Right? So all you can do is hope that you like that you make good decisions along the way. But but even if you make a good decision, stuff could still get screwed up. Right? You know, I mean, that's a and you know, kind of, yeah, worrying about it too much. I I don't find much value and but I do think that like, yet nobody has it together. And the people. What's funny is like the people that admit that are the people that I like, because I feel like I can trust them because they're actually being real with me and like authentic. Right. So I think, you know, I'm drawn to people who are just like, open about that. And I think what what I have seen, and the leaders that I follow that I that I love and respect, are that way as well. They are open and authentic and admit when they don't know the right answer, and admit when they mess up and ask for grace and forgiveness when maybe they said something that was not full of integrity. Right. You know, and so it's, it's those people that that I think are are are the leaders of tomorrow and truly build great teams.

Jacques Martiquet: 34:49

Yeah, yeah. And I think the principle there is, is just role modeling, role modeling the social norms you want to create on your team. If you want if you want people to talk about how they're stressed and how they're angry and how they're sad. Because these are normal human emotions, like we all go through these emotions, then it begins, it begins by learning to authentically communicate that and gently communicating that. And, yeah, I think, you know, there's an opportunity to talk about, well, to talk about, you know, perspectives on life and control over our environment. You know, I'll just summarize that whole conversation by sharing that, like, as much as, as much as I can say that I'm in charge of my mental health, and I'm in charge of my emotions, you may upset me in the next five seconds, and I don't have an explanation for it. Like, it may just come up because of some memory I had. And so I think that this, this, giving people the benefit of the doubt, and accepting the full emotional spectrum, I think that is so essential to, to authentic bonds is, and sometimes it's hard for me, like, I really, I love emotional stability, but, you know, some sometimes my friends they get upset, and, you know, I accept that as a part of being human. Right. Right.

Kyle Roed: 36:40

You know, and I think I think that's a really important context to have, you know, the, the, like, the politically correct, like view of society that that we're told, should exist, you know, every, you know, everybody's always in harmony. And nobody's, you know, there's no conflict. And they said, like, this just isn't the real world. But so I truly believe that like, building these authentic connections, and then having the strength of relationship to, to have conflict, and be open about things that might frustrate you. Like, that's the secret sauce, right? That's where that's where you like, maybe you have an argument with a co worker. And if you have a weak relationship, you think, oh, jeez, I'm doing a terrible job, I better go find a new job. Or you have a conflict with a co worker that you have a great relationship with, and you resolve it. And you think, gee, I'm really glad we have this good relationship. I'm really glad I work here. I'm glad we got a better solution out of this discussion, right? Like, those are two drastically different situations, that could be the exact same beginning. Right? Like, that's the secret sauce, um, which

Jacques Martiquet: 37:51

I love that you're bringing in. That, you know, we could also say that conflict can be an authentic connection, I mean, authentic connections are not all just joyful. If people are in conflict, and they slow down enough to process that conflict and understand each other, that resolution will be evidence for the strength of their relationship moving forward. I've had I've had conflicts with my friends about money, you know, about not showing up all these different things. And every time I have a discussion with Danette, my mantra for conflict and for leaders, when people have the courage to get angry at you, or call you out or criticize you, even if it's done so aggressively, and so poorly. They are taking a step of courage, maybe they're even doing it unconsciously. But when people do that, for me, I shut up and listen, because I know that when when this happens, when someone is approaching me, with with with conflict with with upsetness. That's a huge opportunity to create psychological safety. Huge, because if I shut them down, and I punish them, they will never do it again. They will never approach me again. Or they'll do it even more aggressively the next time. So when we have these conflicts, there's an opportunity to build trust. And I want to I want to go back to what we were chatting about with the overwhelm. And it seems you said you know, every year it seems like things Things are getting more overwhelming in general. Now, the pace of life has increased, like the pace of life has sped up. I mean, we just have more communication. You know, our our lives are kind of more Usually complicated. And a faster pace of life is not conducive to slow, nourishing connections. connection is slow. connection is slow. And so often and this holy crap like, oh, man, I just used to be the party guy. Like, I didn't know how to have connections with people, but I knew how to throw a good party. And so, and I was so fast, like I couldn't, I couldn't slow down and truly listen to someone, or I couldn't, I couldn't share with people. My experience and what I was actually dealing with people because I was I was so fast, I didn't even notice my body, right? So slowing down the pace of our connections, that is going to increase your likelihood of having these, like making people feel really seen and heard. So there you'll

Kyle Roed: 41:02

love that. With that we're almost at time. So we're gonna shift gears, we're gonna go into the rebel HR flash round. Are you ready? Oh, yeah. All right. Question number one, where does HR need to rebel?

Jacques Martiquet: 41:16

HR needs to rebel in their norms for human gatherings, how they design human gatherings and how people connect at those gatherings.

Kyle Roed: 41:32

Love that. Question number two, who should we be listening to?

Jacques Martiquet: 41:38

Ah, I would say Priya Parker, Priya Parker art of gathering. She has started to educate people about the power of gatherings. And by the way, a gathering is happening right now between you and I Kyle, this is this is technically a gathering. So Parker's quite the futurists in this field.

Kyle Roed: 42:00

Very cool. Very cool. And I'm curious, how do you pick your soundtrack? Like like what saw how can you check those songs? Just curious. Like, what's the setlist? Yeah, so this is not on the flash round questions. I'm sorry. I'm going off script. But I'm just curious.

Jacques Martiquet: 42:17

So if anyone wants music, that some music has the ability to change the mood in a room immediately. And so I have about 600 playlists and about 4000 songs and I, I know them subconsciously. But how I choose them how I choose them. Kyle is I've just played them so many times. And they've worked that I know, I know exactly which one to play for which activity for which mood. One of my favorites is twist and shout. Get people to twist and shout just

Kyle Roed: 43:00

say that I'm like, yeah, no, yeah, you get the thing in your Yep. Cool. Love it. You let me know if you need a backup dancer. I'm you know, I can moonlight. Alright, last question, how can our listeners connect with you?

Jacques Martiquet: 43:14

Yes, I would go to my LinkedIn and subscribe to my newsletter on LinkedIn called chief connection scientists. You can find me on LinkedIn by searching that in the LinkedIn search box chief connection scientist is my newsletter, which focuses on community leadership and leadership development.

Kyle Roed: 43:40

Absolutely, and we will have all that information in the show notes. So open it up, you can connect with Jack and check it out. He is definitely got some good videos out there too. So highly recommend it. So

Jacques Martiquet: 43:53

my hilarious past

Kyle Roed: 43:57

you never gonna live that down. See, I had the benefit. You know, I'm old enough that social media like none of that stuff exists on social media for me. So as far as people know, I'm just me. Not the guy in the metal band touring around middle America. Anyways. Jack wonderful work wonderful stuff. I'm so into the work that you're doing. And I just think this is a really important field. And I can't wait to see how this how this movement continues to grow.

Jacques Martiquet: 44:26

Thank you for all the inspirations today, Kyle, this has been so energizing.

Kyle Roed: 44:30

Likewise, thank you. All right. That does it for the rebel HR podcast. Big thank you to our guests. Follow us on Facebook at rebel HR podcast, Twitter at rebel HR guy, or see our website at rebel human resources.com. The views and opinions expressed by rebel HR podcast are those the authors and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any of the organizations that we represent. No animals were harmed during the filming of the This podcast may be