Unlocking Your Workforce's Hidden Potential with Retention Expert, Jeff Kortes

Speaker 1: 0:03

This is the Rebel HR Podcast, the podcast about all things innovation in the people's space. I'm Kyle Rode. Let's start the show. Welcome back Rebel HR listeners, extremely excited for our guest today. We have with us back on the Rebel HR Podcast Jeff Cordes. Jeff joined us way back in January of 2021 on episode 28, and we were talking about giving your employees crap. Today, we are going to be talking about all sorts of things, from hybrid work to how to drive retention, to how to get into the powerlifting national championship. So, jeff, welcome to the podcast.

Speaker 2: 0:48

It's great to be here. Yeah, I didn't realize it was two and a half years. I was talking and I said, wow, I'm lucky, I'm still alive.

Speaker 1: 0:56

Well, I'm not surprised. You're a fit guy, You're active. I fully expected you to be here, but I did not expect it to be two and a half years later. So before we hit record, we were kind of joking around. Not much has happened in two and a half years. It's pretty standard stuff, right?

Speaker 2: 1:16

No changes at all in the HR world, of course.

Speaker 1: 1:20

It is funny to think about that, though, and to reflect back on everything that our society, our workplaces, human resources as a profession has had dramatic change. I think a lot of it has really been changed in a fairly positive direction, although much of it's been surprising. One of the areas that I want to spend some time talking about today and I just read it, literally just read an article today that keeping your employees is more important to corporate executives than sales and profit. That's according to a research study done by Gallagher. It's because it's such a critical challenge that we're all facing today. One of the areas that you spend a lot of your time and expertise and focus on is about keeping your people. I want to start off with that first question. As you have been observing this new world of work, what are you finding as driving people to stay with their organizations or, alternatively, driving them away?

Speaker 2: 2:33

This was pre-pandemic. It hasn't changed. But the three things that really drive employee retention are great bosses, great teammates and a great culture. If you have those three because if you look at those three elements, all your turnover falls into any one of those three buckets If you haven't got all of those three buttoned down, you're going to be losing people no matter what.

Speaker 1: 3:03

I couldn't agree more. I think what's funny. I don't know about you, but I feel like it's a little bit validating you and I have been saying this as long as we've been in this field. This isn't rocket science, but I do feel like the rest of the world is like oh shit, we do have to worry about keeping people and making sure we have good bosses, making sure our teammates are working well together, making sure we have a great culture. Some people are just now discovering this. For those of us that have been preaching this and talking about this for years, it's a little bit of validation, right.

Speaker 2: 3:45

Yes, it is, I hate to say it, but sad fact that finally CEOs and owners are starting to get the point that your profits and everything that you do in your business is driven by talent. I saw actually a written article in the Wall Street Journal recently that said that tenure actually drives productivity. When you start talking about churn and burn with people, it's problematic because, or particularly you get somebody who's got five, six, seven years and they leave. They've got a lot of tribal knowledge and they walk away with that. When they know their job, they're doing their job well. You bring in somebody who's new, they have to relearn it totally. It can take years for them to relearn it because it took the prior person five, six, seven years to learn.

Speaker 1: 4:48

Yeah, absolutely. I think it's funny because the statement you made makes perfect logical sense, and I have personally observed it multiple times. But that's not necessarily how we think about talent. A lot of times, we do think about, well, somebody who's been around for a long time. They're a you know, quote strong contributor, or maybe they're not promotable or maybe, you know, maybe we need to be thinking about how to you know, quote upgrade talent, but that's not necessarily what the research would tell you, and so I want to expand on that a little bit more, give us a little bit more insight into this idea of tenure as something to focus on as it relates to our teams.

Speaker 2: 5:35

You're looking at it. I mean just that we've shipped our focus and I think it's a good thing. We've shifted our focus because it needed to have attention. But we've shifted our focus to the newbies, all the people who come in and over the first. You know, six months to a year in some cases could be the first week, you know when people leave. We've shifted our focus there and that's good because clearly we've had talent retention gaps there.

Speaker 2: 6:05

But now we've tended to forget about our people who are long tenured. We take them for granted, and you can't. Because I think they see how we treat newbies and they're saying well, what about me? You know, I've been cranking away for eight, nine, 10, 12 years and nobody's ever treated me like that, and so what we do with our newbies, we have to also do that with our people who are long tenured. You can't forget those people.

Speaker 2: 6:39

The other thing I see particularly when I say long tenured, I mean I'm talking, you know, 12 years or whatever I see people in organizations where they've got people who've been with the organization 30 years. You know they're, you know they've been there since they've been 30, they're 60 now, and we tend to take those people for granted. Well, they're going to stick around until retirement. Not anymore what I see, and I think I don't know if you mentioned in the past, but in addition to speaking across North America on retention, I'm also a head hunter. I head hunt still and it's amazing the number of people that I suck out of organizations who are, you know, 55 and above and before that. Before that, nobody would ever leave after we're at 55. I'm pulling people out of an organization, sometimes senior level people out of an organization when they're 55 plus and their employer has taken them for granted and that's one of the kisses of death for an employer.

Speaker 1: 7:42

Yeah, it's, you know it's. This might be an odd analogy, but think about it. It's like it's like a first date, right. Like you're always excited. You know you're excited for the first date, right, and everything's new and exciting, and that's like that's kind of the new hire thing, right. It's like you know, we get excited about these new things. It's like you know, oh, you know, there's so much, there's quote potential, right, but it's a lot harder to keep the magic alive. Yeah, yeah, yeah, right, but it's really easy to take, you know, a 30 year relationship for granted and if you don't intentionally focus on it, then you know it can, it can deteriorate.

Speaker 2: 8:21

I've been very 45 years. You're probably not even that old.

Speaker 1: 8:29

No comment, no comment.

Speaker 2: 8:31

Oh, what can I say?

Speaker 1: 8:34

No, you're, you're not wrong, you're not wrong I will get that, but, but I do think it's it's, you know it's it does come down to being intentional about it, right, like you have to invest in it and and I think you know this is a this is a topic that we talked about last time. We spoke in it and I think, I think there's something broken with the, with the language that we use as it's, as it relates to our teams, you know, and even the name, you know resource, human resource versus human assets, right, as you, as you articulated on our last discussion, it's that management, right, exactly.

Speaker 2: 9:17

Yeah, they're assets and you protect your assets.

Speaker 1: 9:20

Right, right, yeah, and the other thing you do with an asset is you invest in it, right, and so it's it's. I think about it like you know, as opposed to thinking about the work that we do as a cost center, thinking about it as an investment center, and you know, and if we don't consistently invest in our people and and and really, you know, really, really make sure that we are, are intentional about where we put our energy resources, time, focus, you know they will leave right and we've. That's my argument is. I don't think that it's a generational thing, I don't think it's a COVID thing. I think it's that people just are, are sick of, you know, being treated like like a resource. Yeah, cogonal wheel, exactly.

Speaker 2: 10:02

Yeah, cogonal wheel.

Speaker 1: 10:04

Exactly.

Speaker 2: 10:05

I mean that's, that's. That's what I see a lot of. I mean, I don't care how old people are. We've turned some people into mushrooms when we shouldn't, I mean, and we just they're there. We've got to constantly keep people in the organization growing. I don't care if they're 25 or 65 and they're still with you. You got to keep them growing because if because growth energizes people, keeps them excited and keeps them really truly contributing, and if you're doing that, people will stay in craziness and silence. I mean, I know, I know general managers. Right now, a couple of my clients, they the general managers, one is 68, the other is 69. And they're not talking about quitting. You know they could bail, but they say love doing what I'm doing, the owner treats me right and yeah, I mean, and they're vibrant and alive.

Speaker 1: 11:16

Absolutely. You know, I think it's, I think that's an important topic and we don't know that we talk about it enough. But it's the fact that you know, everybody just assumes that once somebody hits 60, 65 up there, they're a year from retirement or two years from retirement.

Speaker 2: 11:31

Well, everybody keeps asking me when am I going to retire? It drives me crazy. I have no plans to retire because, trust me, I'm over 60.

Speaker 1: 11:42

Yeah, and I think the challenge though there is, you know it's the fear of the like, the knowledge transfer, lack thereof, right, but I would argue that it's less about that and it's more about it's about allowing people to work in a way that fulfills them, in an environment that allows them to feel fulfilled, and, you know, first of all, they'll stick around a lot longer, but that will also, that will inherently facilitate knowledge transfer, right. If somebody is, if somebody is happy and content and you know, maybe they, maybe they might retire in five years, maybe eight, maybe 10, if they're happy, they're going to be a lot more open-minded to helping to train and mentor the next individual coming up. And so, you know, I'm curious as we think about this, you know this question of churn and burn versus tenure and how we structure our workplaces. What are you seeing out there with your clients as it relates to how they're building these successful boss, teammate culture, kind of this trifecta to keep people successfully employed at their company?

Speaker 2: 13:00

Well, again, when I work with clients, I tell them look, I actually use what I call a great boss checklist. I've developed 34 questions that people look for in a great boss and I will use that when I'm doing workshop with clients. And this was not just some HR checklist. I initially started on it, but then I asked operations people, I asked sales people, I asked customer service people, I asked engineering managers you know what are some other things and so I've gotten feedback from you know a lot of different disciplines, and I use that to have leaders that are in my workshops self-evaluate and take a good hard look at themselves. And then I've told them hey, if you really got guts, give it to your people and ask them to fill it out on you. And then I see the sweat breakout on foreheads and things like that. But again, it's constantly asking you know what are you doing as a boss? And then I think the other thing from a boss perspective. So many bosses are out there have never been trained in any sort of leadership skills. I mean I'm amazed. I mean I'll get directors and VPs in some of my sessions because they want to kind of be there and make sure that they're visible, which is a good thing. And then they come up to me afterwards and say you know, I've been doing this for 25 years and I never thought of that. So again, that revelation, you know, it really comes. It comes down to fundamentals, fundamentals, fundamentals. But a lot of people don't. Even even senior level execs have never been taught the fundamentals. So I mean, for a boss perspective, that's one thing.

Speaker 2: 14:46

From a teammate perspective situation, I talk a lot about respect. You know, do people treat each other with respect? Do they carry their load? Do they jump in when people need a hand? All those things that you know people look at and say you know, this is what a good teammate's about, you know.

Speaker 2: 15:11

And when we talk about inclusivity, one of the things I see is oftentimes, particularly when we deal with the various generations, some generations won't include people in various events and vice versa. I've seen it with younger people with older people. I've seen it with older people with younger people. And that's crazy because there's still your teammates, you know, and you can learn so much from each other across the generations. And then the last thing is the culture. I mean, I've seen, I've seen great bosses, I've seen great teammates, but I've seen cultures that are dysfunctional and people leave, so you got to have all. You got to have all three. The other thing is something one of the worst situations is if you have a dysfunctional culture, it oftentimes breeds dysfunctional bosses, and that's the kiss of death. When you have those two, you're just going to be rolling through people one after the other, but you need all three in order for people to truly want to stay with the organization. And if you have all three, you're going to have a high performing organization.

Speaker 1: 16:23

You know I was, I was, I was chucking a little bit to myself here because I I saw some article on LinkedIn and it was it. The joke was that, you know, culture is just something that HR came up with to validate their, their, their existence, which which I don't believe, by the way, but I, I thought it was kind of a funny, a funny article and, and you know, went on to kind of, you know, poke some holes in the in the original thesis. But I'm curious, as you look at an organizational culture and you and you think about, you know good, what, what a good culture looks like, what are the, what are the elements that that stand out to you, that you know really help reinforce? Okay, this is, this is a good culture. This is a culture that people will want to be a part of.

Speaker 2: 17:06

I think the first thing is is open to all people, kind of that inclusive inclusivity piece. Everyone has to feel comfortable within the organization, and I'm not saying they're necessarily happy, but they, they, they have to feel like they matter. I think that's one of the one of the biggest things is is they have to realize that they matter and what they do matters. I think that that's hugely important. I think another thing when we talk about culture is what are the value systems of the organization? I see a lot of organizations that haven't even articulated that, or if they have articulated it, it's so high level that the average person looks at it and says, well, what does that mean for me? I think you have a value system and it has to be translated into. What are those behaviors that you expect from people in a high performing culture?

Speaker 2: 18:08

I think those are probably the two biggest biggest things that I see. And then you, then you need to build on each one of those things that you've articulated and connect the dots for people, translate them into. If you say we're going to have integrity, well, what does that mean? A behavior would be we always tell the truth, right? I mean, because a lot of people don't connect the dots. They say, well, what does it mean? I'm supposed to have integrity, explain that to me. And then we never explain it to them, so that that never gets gets translated properly and never gets down to the very various levels in the organization.

Speaker 1: 18:57

Yeah, I couldn't agree more. This is near and dear to my heart because I just did this. I feel like it was a 10-year project, but it was a good year-long project about a year ago to do this for my organization to try to figure out, okay, what is our value system, what is a value set? But then how do you take it a little bit deeper and actually define what that means? Because it's so easy to sit in a boardroom and just slap each other on the back and say mission accomplished, we got our value sets defined, let's put them on the website and call it good. It's a lot harder to help a customer service rep or a welder or a new hire figure out what does this mean? I've got to believe that, as you go into organizations and you help support them with these sorts of things, that that's one of the first areas you look at. So what have you seen successful organizations do to incorporate these value systems within their organization, not just on a flashy website somewhere?

Speaker 2: 20:08

I always tell people I don't even know what I'm saying. I was an HR leader years ago. We had our value system, but then we developed what we called positive behaviors. What were the things that we expected people to do and broke them down to things like be open and listening, treat people with respect. In this organization, we had a situation where people would always show up for late for meetings. We even put it right in there. We broke it down so far that we said be respectful by showing up for meetings on time, things like that. We looked at the organizations. That based on us what positive behaviors we need.

Speaker 2: 20:58

Now, when I work with clients, what I find is I actually have them do a culture audit. That culture audit actually drives what's going to happen next, because most times organizations haven't looked at their culture as soon as they do. I love to have the CEO and the HR director fill the thing out together and see the differences between what the HR person thinks and what the CEO thinks. That's a good exercise because it helps to bring a meeting of the minds. Then the next step is how do you develop those things that help? Again, it's elaborate on what do these things mean and what do they mean to the culture?

Speaker 1: 21:45

That would be a fun exercise. I would like to do that and just see where the Delta is here I can see it going away. You could have the super optimistic CEO that's like we're great, good job. You could have the super pessimistic HR person that's like just like dealing with employee relations investigations for like 25 hours a week, or some version of that.

Speaker 2: 22:15

You have CEOs that suffer from what I call the Fugut Men's Syndrome Truth. They can't handle the truth. Things are better than what they really are. They may not be horrible, but oftentimes, especially in this country, a vast majority of organizations are owned by an owner. They're not stock held, they're owned by an owner and the owner, it's their baby. It's tough for them to get past that ego piece and admit that, well, we've got some things we've got to work on.

Speaker 1: 23:03

I don't buy it. There's no egos in the world of running organizations.

Speaker 2: 23:09

Well, it's funny because I'm actually I'm big into this stuff, because my clients come to me they say well, what can we do? I can explain a lot of things. Actually, I'm reading a book right now called Ego is the Enemy Phenomenal book. If you haven't read Ego is the Enemy, I'm putting in a plug for the author. I got to tell you it's great because all too often we're successful but then we let our ego get in the way of continuing that success.

Speaker 1: 23:51

Yeah, yeah. I say a lot of times a lot of my job is what I call ego management, because ego serves a purpose. Having some confidence and having that survival instinct and the ability to fight for what you believe in, all those things I think can be valuable in the right situation. When it comes to calm and rational and building culture and strategy and being thoughtful as you hold people accountable as an example, it can be very detrimental, yeah, it takes us over the edge.

Speaker 2: 24:33

It takes us from being confident to being egotistical.

Speaker 1: 24:37

Right, yeah, in one of my past organizations I worked at, they did what you mentioned. They took their value system and they put it into behavioral context. One of the terms that I really liked is confidence, not cockiness. It's good to be confident, that's a good thing, or have that swagger, if you will but when it shifts into cockiness or self-assuredness is maybe the more HR appropriate term there Then it's detrimental. It's that fine line.

Speaker 2: 25:13

Yeah, fine line. Unfortunately, I understand how. In some ways, I had gotten a little to that point, because I own my own business. I built this thing and I've been successful. One day I realized that wait a second, I was starting to get too big of a head. I said no, I got to step back, because I've always got a lot to learn to be better. If you get too egotistical, you forget that and you stop learning.

Speaker 1: 25:52

Right, and that if nothing else kills culture, teamwork being a good boss, then when you stop learning right.

Speaker 2: 26:04

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 26:05

I mean, that is for sure reality. One of the areas I wanted to touch on I know you've done a lot of work here and kind of circling back to where we started this conversation and nothing's changed in two and a half years, yeah, you know, laugh out loud Is hybrid work and kind of the shifting of how people conduct work. And so, as we think about that in the context of having a great boss, having great teammates and having a great culture, how are we supposed to do all that when the actual physical workplace is shifting so dramatically and now we don't have control over environments like we used to three, four, five years ago?

Speaker 2: 26:52

We only we don't have control over environments if we allow that not to happen. And I believe hybrid work is truly very effective. I mean, studies have shown that if people work part of the time out of the office they're actually more productive because they're not sucked into all these meetings, they're not BSing a lot and doing all those things. But the real key is organizations have to set expectations for those folks that are working hybrid, because if you put them out there and you don't tell them anything, well, people think anything kind of goes right. But you got to lay out those expectations and be specific about it. I mean, as an example again, one of my clients. He said well, we've got some people going to. Well, they were totally remote. And he said we're going to bring them back to hybrid. And I said well, what are the expectations you're laying out for people? And General Manager said well, you know. He says you know, we expect people to be working. I said well, what do you mean by that? He said well, he says I understand, if somebody wants to go down and throw their laundry in the you know, in the washer, that's fine, but we expect them to get back to work, you know, and you know, running around doing everything but work is not what we want. Well, what is that? You know, we want to throw in your laundry.

Speaker 2: 28:18

I use myself as an example. Again, I'm the boss, I run my own show. But even me, because I have to kind of set my own expectations, I have to be disciplined enough. Before we started, I was looking at my watch and thinking to myself okay, because I actually, before I jumped onto this call, I was preparing my corned beef to be put on a smoker, so I made it a point to do that. Before you know, it took me about 15 minutes got on a smoker. It's smoking now as we speak, but I didn't miss our call because of it. You know, I mean, I know those parameters.

Speaker 2: 28:56

Or you tell people look, we expect to take 30 minutes for lunch, whatever. Or if you don't want to take lunch, you know. But you take a couple of breaks in a day. We understand that. But we expect you to be working and we expect that if you don't have enough work, then you'll say something, not that a lot of people do, but you set that expectation, you tell them what you expect and you elaborate on it. You know, hey, when I give you a call, I don't want to wait for an hour and a half to get a call back. You know, because that makes and I've told clients to tell their people say, because when you don't call me an hour and a half, that tells me you're doing something else besides work.

Speaker 2: 29:46

You know again, but be very specific on those expectations. I mean, and some of the other ones I guess I think about, is, you know again, tell them, hey, it's okay to go do this, it's okay to do that you have to run to the doctor to take your son or daughter or whatever. That's fine. But then when you're done, we expect to come back and go back to work. You know, and just be very specific and I tell them what it's okay to do and certain things that you think it's not okay to do. And it's a learning experience. As you start working through it you'll get better because the hybrid work is something that's, you know, really revolutionary in a lot of ways.

Speaker 1: 30:32

Yeah, you know, I think it's been fascinating because it and you know I think it's here to stay. I think that organizations that can do it, that the work structure allows that to happen. You know there are some that will never. You know, retail can't be remote right Manufacturing can't be remote At least not all of it.

Speaker 1: 30:55

Construction, yeah, you know, although here's a you know a pitch out there, but anybody's, you know, thinking about a job change. My argument is, I think plumbers and electricians and anybody that does like household work, you're going to have so much job security because there's such a scarcity.

Speaker 2: 31:10

It's just great, yeah, absolutely yeah. I mean yeah, it's a huge issue because I do a lot with the construction.

Speaker 2: 31:20

And you know I mean, and I tell construction companies I work with and they got some people that are remote. You know, in certain jobs can be remote, but then you got all the other folks out in the field, one of the expectations I tell all of my clients manufacturing construction, any of those things. You will not be out there bragging about the fact that you took a half an hour off to walk your dog and things like that.

Speaker 2: 31:55

Yeah, right, hey, but it's amazing how people will do such stupid stuff, yeah, and then the word gets out to the people and the crews out on the construction site, the people in the manufacturing plant, all those people in there saying wow, this is unfair and, frankly, it is, and all they do is inflame things as a result. Well, one of the GM's I work with, he elaborated on these. Hey, if you're going to do some of that stuff, which I don't expect you to do, at least be smart enough to keep your mouth shut.

Speaker 2: 32:33

You know he laid out that expectation for them. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 32:37

You would think you wouldn't have to say that because it could frustrate people, but you know, I don't know. Self awareness is important.

Speaker 2: 32:45

Hey, I'm not surprised by anything anymore.

Speaker 1: 32:47

Yeah, that's true. You know I've been doing this long enough. I should know better, but you know, I do think it's a good point. You know, and I think that's especially as we look at certain workplaces that question of fairness can be a big issue, but it's not going away right, and I think figuring out ways to structure it in a way that makes sense is the right approach. I also think a lot of this comes back to what you were talking about earlier, which is the fact that a lot of this is just good leadership, right, and a lot of people don't necessarily understand what that means because they've never been through formal training and it's, you know, it's really.

Speaker 1: 33:25

it's up to us as HR professionals and you know folks who are helping support organizational culture to set these expectations for leaders right. So if it's as simple as setting good expectations, then you know we need to take the lead on that.

Speaker 2: 33:42

Now the other thing is is don't assume that all your leaders are necessarily good leaders. You know, I mean, I've seen a lot of leaders love hybrid because they do the stuff that they don't want their employees to do when they're at home. You know, crazy as that sounds. And the other thing, that and it's sad I've seen a lot of leaders think that because they use the excuse that hybrid is harder to manage, so they just stop managing. And if you have that going on in your organization, you need to say, hey look, we've got to come up with innovative ways to manage in a hybrid workforce, not just abrogate those responsibilities and not do them at all.

Speaker 1: 34:29

Right, yeah, I think about it. You know, it reminds me of the old school kind of. You know, the way I was raised to lead is kind of the trust of a verify right, you know you have to trust people.

Speaker 1: 34:41

That's just part of the way it is to lead somebody in a hybrid environment. But you have to verify. You still have to lead, you have to set expectations, you have to clarify, you know what you expect, what needs to get done, when it needs to get done. Then you need to follow up if that's not happening right. But that's really easy to say without being thoughtful and intentional about how you do that as a leader right, yeah, and I think intentionality is the real key.

Speaker 2: 35:05

Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 1: 35:07

Oh, this has been fun. And you know I schedule, you know, about 35, 45 minutes for these things, and I always kick myself because I just want the conversation to keep going. But we are going to shift gears, we're going to go into the Rebel HR Flash Round, which we did not have a chance to do because it didn't exist the last time we talked. So here we go. Are you ready? Yeah, All right. Question number one where does HR need to rebel?

Speaker 2: 35:37

I think HR has to truly take their seat at the table, and those HR leaders who capitalized on the pandemic showed that they belong at the table. If you haven't done that, you need to take your seat at the table, because otherwise a lot of leaders view HR as a cross-center Right.

Speaker 1: 36:01

Overhead? Absolutely, yeah, I've told this story quite a bit, so I apologize to all the listeners that have heard this story multiple times.

Speaker 2: 36:09

I'll never forget the orientation.

Speaker 1: 36:12

I went into an orientation and I was brand new hire HR generalist and I sit down in that chair and the continuous improvement manager points at me and says you're non-value-added, overhead. Like first of all, well, this is a great employee experience. But that was the context of human resources at the time. Yeah, this is way pre-COVID. This was a long time ago and this was before, I think, a lot of the kind of new school HR theory started to come into play. The reality is that HR had not earned seat at the table yet and it's because we hadn't articulated the value, we hadn't been that critical component of the business. And the reality is that we all have the responsibility to earn that within our organizations because ultimately that makes our organizations better. So I couldn't agree more. But yeah, there's nothing like getting pointed out and saying you're overhead, You're non-value-added, the customers don't want to pay for you.

Speaker 1: 37:09

Yeah, right, that makes you feel good, doesn't it? Does it, does it. It's like telling someone just don't suck any more than you have to Like, gee, thanks, Thanks, coach. I'm going to go out there and do my best, you know. All right. Question number two who should we be listening to Me?

Speaker 2: 37:31

Actually, I do constant posts on LinkedIn For what it's worth. I mean, if you care about employee retention, you need to be watching my stuff, because I talk about employee retention all the time and you need to find experts out there in certain areas that are important to you as an HR leader. I think the other thing is is I am an avid reader of the Wall Street Journal. I pretty much read the Wall Street Journal cover to cover, and when I don't, my wife, who also does research for me, she's reading and handing me articles, and the Wall Street Journal is a great spot to get a lot of not only HR knowledge but business knowledge, and too many HR people are only concerned with being HR. You've got to be a business person first, HR leader second, because that's one of the ways that you take your seat at the table.

Speaker 1: 38:35

I couldn't agree more. I've said that for years. I also have the benefit. I didn't start in HR right, so I was one of those people hating on HR back in the day, so I had the benefit of that. But I do. Getting that well-rounded knowledge of business and learning that within the context of your organization, that's how you build the trust right and the credibility and the ability to speak up and have people listen to you. So I couldn't agree more.

Speaker 2: 39:08

And I said to the Boms and you say, hey, some of this great article in the Wall Street Journal, it's not you saying, hey, I think we need to do this. You show them the article and then you say, hey, you know, I think maybe we could use some of this stuff. Let's talk about it Again. It's being a resource for the owner, the general manager, again adding value. Adding value, using resources to validate that you know what you're doing.

Speaker 1: 39:40

Right, right, yep, 100%, all right. Last question, and we started to talk about it, but how can people connect with you, learn more and follow some of the content and ideas that you're putting out there?

Speaker 2: 39:54

Well, you can go to my website. My website is jeffcordiscom, that's spelled K-O-R-T-E-S and it's J-E-F-F and jeffcordiscom, again, that's K-O-R-T-E-S. You can sign up for my blog. You can read all the kind. I mean I've got something that's probably I probably post twice a week and it goes to my website. You can go in there. You can look at it, you know again, and have at it, because I think that's it's a great repository, because not only did I learn as an HR leader, but I learned from my clients every day. But you know that's how you or you can follow me on LinkedIn. I'm constantly posting on LinkedIn.

Speaker 1: 40:38

Absolutely yeah, and we'll have all that information in the show notes. If you want to check out the past episode with Jeff, it's episode 28, way back in January of 2021, and he'll talk about his famous keynote about giving employees crap.

Speaker 2: 40:52

It's worth checking out, hey, and what you do want to check out is is go, go to LinkedIn, because I'm actually doing a series right now because, as you mentioned, I'm a powerlifter. I'm going to be competing in the national powerlifting championships down in Memphis in about six weeks and I'm actually doing a documentary of my last eight weeks on the road to Memphis, and that's what. That's what it's called on the road to Memphis, the road to Memphis. So and it's crazy, kyle, because I post content all the time but the biggest impressions I get on LinkedIn, I mean I show pictures of me weightlifting.

Speaker 1: 41:30

I saw you doing power squats at one point, yeah, yeah, when.

Speaker 2: 41:33

I, you know, and I'm thinking I'm just working out, yeah, yeah, and more people comment on stuff like that. But you know, and that's great. I, you know. I think a lot of people like to know people as people, as opposed to this is just another guy who knows something about retention. Yeah, I'm real.

Speaker 1: 41:53

Yeah, there you go. I'm going to put a, I'm going to put a question. In the show notes I'm going to say do you want, do you want to see Kyle doing jumping jacks on LinkedIn or something? Call him Rebel HR Jumping? We'll, just, we'll do a test.

Speaker 2: 42:05

Okay, don't hurt yourself.

Speaker 1: 42:08

Yeah, I'll do my best. It's been an absolute pleasure and really appreciate you spending some time with us, sharing a little bit of knowledge, and can't wait to welcome you back.

Speaker 2: 42:17

Yeah, it's always fun. I appreciate you inviting me back, and let's not make it two and a half years. How's that? All right deal. Sounds good, thanks.

Speaker 1: 42:24

Jeff, take care. Bye, bye, all right. That does it for the Rebel HR podcast. Big thank you to our guests. Follow us on Facebook at Rebel HR podcast, twitter at rebelhrguy, or see our website at rebelhumanresourcescom. The views and opinions expressed by Rebel HR podcast are those of the authors and do not merely reflect the official policy or position of any of the organizations that we represent. No animals were harmed during the filming of this podcast.

Speaker 2: 42:57

Baby.