Join Kyle as he speaks with Jill Kane. Jill is a Workplace Well-being Consultant who partners with organizational leaders to create and implement a multi-dimensional well-being strategy that drives business results, cultivates a winning culture, and attracts, engages, and retains top talent.
With over 20 years’ experience in Corporate Human Resources (specifically Compensation Management) Jill is a Certified Executive Wellness Leader, Health Coach, Certified Master Workplace Wellness Ambassador, and mom of two young boys. After experiencing the effects of stress, burnout, and an unhealthy lifestyle and witnessing the same in the workplace, she became passionate about making a difference.
While 48% of executives rank employee wellbeing as a top workforce concern, only 29% of HR leaders actually have a health and wellbeing strategy. Over the past year it has become even more critical to support employees through the increased stress, uncertainty, and changing work landscape.
Here are some topics we discuss:
• Integrating well-being into work design
• Equipping leaders to facilitate change through well-being
• Translating organizational wellness into business results
• Prioritizing mental health and resiliency at work
• How HR can help build a culture of well-being
Rebel HR is a podcast for HR professionals and leaders of people who are ready to make some disruption in the world of work.
Subscribe today on your favorite podcast player!
We'll be discussing topics that are disruptive to the world of work and talk about new and different ways to approach solving those problems.
Follow Rebel HR Podcast at:
We love to hear from our listeners! Send us questions or comments at email@example.com
Rebel On, HR Rebels!
Did you know that podcasts are a great way to grow your personal and business brand voice?
Here’s the secret, we all want to feel connected to brands we buy from. What better way to humanize a brand than through sharing your story on a podcast.
Kitcaster is a podcast booking agency that specializes in developing real human connections through podcast appearances.
If you are an expert in your field, have a unique story to share, or an interesting point of view-- it’s time to explore the world of podcasting with Kitcaster.
You can expect a completely customized, concierge service from our staff of communication experts. Kitcaster is your secret weapon in podcasting for business. Your audience is waiting to hear from you.
Go to https://kitcaster.com/rebel to apply for a special offer for friends of this podcast.
Support the show (https://www.buymeacoffee.com/rebelhrpodcast)
You know, we recognize that you're working really hard, and we appreciate it. And we know this is a difficult time because you're not only doing your normal daily job, but maybe you're homeschooling and you've got some other fears and worries and different things going on in your life right now. And we want to recognize thatKyle Roed:
this is the rebel HR podcast, the podcast, where we talk to human resources, innovators, about innovation, in the world of HR, if you are a people leader, or you're looking for a new way to think about how to help others be successful, this is the podcast for you. Rebel on HR rebels. Joe, what got you interested in well being in the workplace?Jill Kane:
Sure. So I've really always had an interest in health and wellness and fitness, pretty much my entire life. So I guess I started, you know, as a college student working at the Y part time and helping the seniors on the Nautilus equipment and I really got a lot of reward just from doing that, you know, just helping people improve their fitness levels. And I knew there was something there. But I didn't really know how to turn that into a career because I didn't necessarily want to be a personal trainer. So I had, you know, been going to school, I got my degree in business and human resources, and really launch right into working in a bank for doing recruiting in some kind of assistance, administrative assistants in HR. And I really enjoyed it, you know, I really enjoyed working with people. And I really enjoyed being part of the people part of the company. And from there, I got roles in compensation. And that just kind of evolved into more work in that field. And I feel like with compensation, I've worked in multiple different industries, I've worked with unionized settings, I've worked with health care, biotech, retail, banking, like insurance, lots of different industries. And it's just really interesting to me, you know, as time went on, to kind of really go back to my roots of really loving the health and fitness aspects of life. And I started to see Ty, so I started to see that, you know, more and more companies were offering wellness benefits and wellness programs, and this topic of wellness was really started to become more of a discussion. And so about maybe eight or so years ago, I started working at a company, and they decided they wanted to launch an official kind of wellness program. So I was able to get involved with that. And it was really exciting to get involved in something from the ground up. And really make sure that, you know, we're taking into account what the employees really want, and helping them really just show up as they're both as selves at work.Kyle Roed:
Got it? Yeah, and this is one of those areas that you know, I'll be honest, the workplace wellness, early in my career, it was kind of like, it was just like a part of a health program. The entire intent was let's try to get people healthy. So they cost us less money on our insurance. And now we're seeing a lot of a mindset shift as it relates to the broader employee experience and how that fits into, you know, how an employee actually works and feels about a company and retention and recruitment and all those things. So what have you seen in your years in this area, as it relates to kind of the workplace focus on well being as opposed to what we would consider wellness?Jill Kane:
Yeah, I think you're absolutely right. And like, so excited talking about this. Because I think that is how it started, right? It was health insurance costs were going up. And it was a way to really keep those costs down and identify more of a preventative approach to maintaining health insurance premiums. So I think that's originally kind of how it started. And that's why wellness, I think, even today, people still kind of assume it's just the physical wellness, it's just the nutrition and walking challenges and gym discounts. But it's so much more than that. And especially with this past year, we've really come to see a real bigger push in total well being so supporting mental health, supporting emotional health, supporting the social aspects of work, your career progression, like your skill building, and your ability to grow and your job. So all of these things are starting to become more and more of a topic. And so I love that we're focusing more on wellbeing and all the different dimensions of well being, you know, financial well being as well. So there's so much more to it than just the physical component. So I'm definitely seeing that shift. And you know, it depends on the company, the industry, I think, you know, some are We're more progressive in that respect. I'm in the Boston area. So we have a high amount of like biotech companies, health care companies, startups. So we're really I think, at the forefront of wellness and well being offerings, in most leaders in those companies know that that's a priority. They know that that is something, not only will attract the top talent and retain them, but it's going to ultimately help them you know, and I think that like, one of the challenges over all the years has been the whole like, subject of is it really producing an ROI, you know, now, there's more research kind of coming out to support that, because it really is a longer term investment, investing employees well being, but it definitely pays off.Kyle Roed:
You know, I think it's really interesting. And you mentioned this in your intros, you were interested in fitness and the way that it made you feel after the workout and you know, staying fit and staying focused on that. And then you take a look in the context of workplace, when employees feel that way. And they have the appropriate level of health and fitness and endorphins and serotonin and their brain is healthier. They're better employees as well. But so often, it's hard for business enterprise to kind of connect the dots and realize, Oh, this isn't, this isn't just a nice to do, this is also a financial win, if we can get everybody 100% engaged and supported and remove barriers from them. So give me an example of a couple instances where an employer has been a little bit progressive, and has implemented something that has shown some results.Jill Kane:
Yeah, you know, I think that it's also, you know, some employers take the approach of just adding more and more programs, more apps, more discounts, which is great, but then people don't end up using it, or they're not aware of it. But I find that some of the most powerful things tend to be the things that we can do that are really low cost or even free. Like it's, you know, one example I can think of is my employer. Now in the past year, they implemented some wellness days. So we're not even really calling them mental health days, but they're just days you can take off, and everybody has a few they can use, when they just need a refresh, they just need some time away, which is really nice to be able to put that message out there from leadership that we care about our employees health, we want you to take breaks, we want you to, you know, we recognize that you're working really hard, and we appreciate it. And we know this is a difficult time because you're not only doing your normal daily job, but maybe you're homeschooling and you're, you've got some other fears and worries and different things going on in your life right now. And we want to recognize that. So I think it's about like, there's some power in that recognition, and just doing things even if that's not like something that they're going to do ongoing, but for the time that they were in, to recognize that and to make that something that they put into place for all employees was really, really nice. And that sent a really great message for people. So I think just looking at what you can do with your own employees right now, that wouldn't really be you know, I'm sure there is a cost to having people take time off. But it's still something simple, like you don't have to go invest in a whole program, necessarily, you know, if that's not something that people are in need of at the moment.Kyle Roed:
Right. And then there's been the unlimited time off. There's some controversy whether people actually take that time. There's some interesting research both ways there. But I think one of the interesting things that that I've seen has been it's been more of a holistic focus on an employee, as a human, as opposed to just you know, an employee as a somebody who's executing something at your workplace more of a holistic view. So how does an employer who is interested in doing more in this space, and maybe they've got a wellness program, but they don't have a lot of engagement? But they do want to make well being more of a focus? Where do they start? How do you really kind of get the ball moving in some of these organizations?Jill Kane:
Yeah, so some organizations that like maybe tend to start with their health insurance company, right? So they look and see what their health claim data is showing? What are their needs? And then they start with maybe some of the programs that that health insurance company offers or their broker offers so that they can get started. But then you know, what tends to happen after maybe Year One is we start getting into Okay, well, that those were all great programs, but now what do we do? We need to keep it fresh, should we keep people interested? And so what I like to do with working with my clients is kind of do spend the first bulk of time really assessing. And what that entails is kind of the whole organizational audit. So talking to the leadership, talking to some of the employees, getting their needs and interests, so not just what the health claim data is showing, which is important, you know, important to address. If a certain population has a lot of cases of diabetes or heart disease, then we want to put programs in place and maybe some workshops to address those things. But I think that looking at what employees actually are saying that they need and want at the time, and that changes so much. So it's good to do that audit every year, every couple of years to make sure that you're always really being responsive to what employees want. And I think the other piece of that that's really big is the communications piece. So I think that some companies have, you know, an intranet site, maybe they have a dedicated well being page. But it's really nice to integrate some of the things going on in well being like whether there's a challenge coming up, or a program coming up or something of a reminder for them to log in and track something, you want to put some of those into your regular ongoing communications. And it's really powerful too, if it comes from the CEO or leadership team, if they're doing something in their monthly Town Hall, for example, they can mention some of the wellness activities going on, just to put that other layer of, you know, actually, this is a priority don't necessarily always put the deadline in the work stuff above your well being because you need to be well to function, and to really do your best and also just feel your best at work. Right?Kyle Roed:
Yeah, it's interesting, you know, I'm guilty, you know, we have had a wellness program, probably every year, I've been in HR and the utilization has been not necessarily great, unless there has been some executive level support, intentional approach to it. And something that has really been focused on what an employee will actually do. I'm curious to get your perspective on this, because one of the arguments I always hear is, is it the carrot or the stick? So do you, you know, incentivize people by giving them more money? Or you know, a paycheck or the day off? Or do you incentivize them by saying, if you don't do this, then we're gonna charge you more for insurance. So where do you stand on that issue?Jill Kane:
Yeah, that's so interesting. Again, that's just an ongoing topic. I think everybody's always talking about, I know what I did my wellness certification, that was like a huge topic. And everybody was like, No, you don't want to use money, don't use incentives. But every company I've worked for has. So I do think, you know, extrinsic motivation, like that does get people started. But what's going to keep them going? It's going to be more than that. So it's how do you build a community around some of these activities, you know, as much as we can remotely, I guess, but if we can do some group things together, if we can, like you mentioned, the leadership has to be bought into it. And also, like, I find having a wellness committee having a group of employees kind of like taking ownership. And they can be in different functions of the organization, kind of being that Ambassador, that's really promoting things that are going on and helping people really prioritize their own self care of their teammates. So I think it has to stem from more than just the programs that are being offered. But yeah, maybe some incentives to start to get people initially, you know, into the habit of exercising, but it really long term research shows that doesn't, it's not enough right now to keep people going. The other really interesting thing that came up was discussion about this, like the behavioral aspects, this is going to be something I think will be a trend for a while being like, how do we look at like people's tendencies? So are they more likely to, like want to say enter to win something, or to work towards winning or earning money, versus like you were saying, avoiding punishment, sort of like avoiding that happening. And so we're also looking at not only the reward aspect, but like, people are really motivated by feeling like they might be missing out. Right? So if there's a time limit on like, you can get this reward, but it's by this date and time. So there's this kind of like, deadline, this urgency to get something done. So we're kind of like looking at all these different aspects of behavioral health and how people make decisions and what motivates people and tying the rewards along those lines, if that makes sense. Sure,Kyle Roed:
sure. And now a word from our sponsors. When Molly Patrick and I started to figure out how to start our own podcast, we didn't know where to start. Thankfully, we found buzzsprout buzzsprout makes it super easy for us to upload our episodes, track our listeners, and get listed on all the major podcast networks. Today's a great day to start your own podcast. I know that you're one of our listeners. So you've definitely got something to say. Whether you're looking for a new marketing channel, have a message you want to share with the world, or just think it would be fun to have your own talk show. podcasting is an easy, inexpensive and fun way to expand your reach online. buzzsprout is hands down the easiest and best way to launch, promote and track your podcast. Your show can be online and listed in all the major podcast directories within minutes of finishing your recording. podcasting isn't that hard when you have the right partner, the team at buzzsprout is passionate about helping you succeed, join over 100,000 podcasters already using buzzsprout to get their message out to the world. And now for listeners of rebel HR, you can get a $20 amazon giftcard sent to you from buzzsprout by clicking in the link in the show notes. Thanks for listening. Yeah, it's interesting. And you know, maybe a little bit of an example here. So a few years ago, we my organization did a wellness credit. And it was really convoluted. I wouldn't necessarily recommend this because it was like a seven point scale and trying to figure out like, Okay, how much is BMI or BMI? And what is cholesterol earned me and like, but if you got the certain number of credits, you got a higher, you know, you got a higher payoff, basically. And then that went toward your insurance premiums for the next year. So went through that. And, you know, obviously I did it because of the incentive. And pretty much everybody else did because you got cheaper insurance. But when we went through that, I assumed that I was a reasonably healthy guy didn't necessarily eat the best back then. And what I found was I saw elevated cholesterol levels as a and at that point 3030 something, you know, early 30s. Male I was like, oh, wow, this is probably isn't good. And prompted some actions on my part. And certainly, so that initial like that, accredit didn't keep me in the mindset of being healthy. But it did, at least make me aware of a potential issue. And then that prompted some lifestyle changes and looking at my kids, and, you know, I want to be around for him. And then actually probably found out that I, there's some family history there, that I had never talked about my parents, or grandparents having that before, you know. So that was kind of like the catalyst to do some changes that did last a lot longer. But I think, a great example of a pretty big lifestyle impact, just because I got, I don't know, 10 bucks a week off my insurance. Right? So well worth it.Jill Kane:
Oh, that's good. I mean, it's good for both you and company too, because the company, you know, didn't have like they could prevent something up front, right. So they're able to put that awareness. Have people take those kind of assessments and become aware of things they might not be aware of yet, and then take some actions. So I think that's great. You know, that's an example of it worked really well.Kyle Roed:
Yeah, it worked. Now, if you can help me get through this half Iron Man in a couple months, that's a different thing. That's more of a peer pressure thing. But I signed up for this thing like well before COVID. And I was like, I'm just gonna do one of these. And then I can check it off the box and tell everybody I did it, you know, and then and now it's like this two year saga where it's like, I've had to like stay in shape for just going through September.Jill Kane:
Okay. I know, that's something I have on my bucket list, too. But it's way out there.Kyle Roed:
To be clear, it's only a half. It's not a full. I'm not there yet. But yeah, that's definitely more of a peer pressure ego signed up. So now I have to do it kind of a thing. So anyways, well, I appreciate the perspective. I think it's a really interesting conversations. I want to shift gears a little bit, because a lot of the focus over the last year has been around feelings of isolation concerns around mental health, and some of those mental health issues, you know, coming to the forefront in the workplace. And people struggling with that. And I think my opinion is, it's very happy to see that this has become a more prominent discussion, because I think it's kind of been hidden under the surface for a lot of people who have been dealing with mental health challenges. So in your work, I know you focus more broadly beyond kind of the traditional health plan wellness programs, what can an employer do to help their employees who may be dealing with hidden issues related to mental health and not even be comfortable sharing that with anybody, even within their family? How can we help them overcome some of these challenges that they're facing?Jill Kane:
Yeah, that's a really great question. And I think, you know, just they get were a company I work with now, what they did last is believe last May. Were first kind of going into the pandemic. It was mental health. Awareness Month, and we had a great lineup of different behavioral health people on staff who were actually on a panel talking about this very subject. So all aspects of it. And just really, I think our management team did a great job of recognizing that people had different things going on, everybody was kind of suffering and going through their own mental health concerns, but they were different. So some people, it was overwhelming, it was everybody's home in my house, and I have nowhere to work. And, you know, I've got kids running around, and I've got to log into school and see what's going on, and just craziness and then other people live alone, and they're isolated, and they're feeling really, like they don't have the social support system that they had before. So they're feeling really alone and isolated, depressed. And even, you know, they mentioned the people who generally you've always got the couple of people in your group at work, who are just always happy, always cracking jokes, and like laughing, but those are the people to you have check in on to because they use humor, you know, as a way to mask some of the other things that may be going on. So I just think recognizing that everybody, in their own ways, having some challenges through this time. And I think even when we're not pandemic mode, right, like, it's just always you just don't know what's going on beneath the surface or at home with people. So I think that giving people the opportunity to have a forum to talk, that's a safe place. And I know that can't really always happen at work. But a couple of things that I've seen work really well, our employee resource groups, a bunch of Employee Resource Groups kind of got together. This year, we've added we've had some, but we've added more. So we've have Parent Resource Group, parenting caregivers, so every month, it's just an informal networking event. And then we bring in somebody maybe from the EAP, or just some local mental health experts to kind of talk through, I know, Nami is a really great organization, they have a lot of free resources, too, that you can share with employees. So I think really the biggest key and the biggest impactful thing I've seen is just when leaders give that opportunity, and also invitation for other people to kind of know, you know, hey, we know that this isn't a normal time at all like that. everybody's having challenges right now. So we don't expect you to always show up and be 100%. And that's okay. Just giving that permission and knowing that, and then checking in on those people who maybe are a little quiet or not showing up to meetings or, you know, being themselves as you normally would see them just checking in and saying, Hey, how's it going? Right. So just while things like that, I think go a long way, especially from leaders and managers to just show that they care. Because as you mentioned before, like it is, well being it's more about the whole employee experience, and not just kind of treating people as you're there to do your job and go home. And then you're, you know, we're not really concerned about what happens at home, we are we're concerned, now you're working at home, too. So it's like really recognize that people are whole and have whole lives and all these different components and things going on, and just kind of being flexible and being making it known that you're available for them to talk to and suggest maybe different things that may support them better at home. Right.Kyle Roed:
Yeah, it's been, you know, it's tough. I mean, everybody's facing different challenges. And it's been really interesting, kind of the blending of work and home and home office and homeschooling. I mean, it's just, I have three little kids. So when the schools were closed, it was certainly challenging. And I have a job that doesn't allow me to not be present, especially in the middle of a global pandemic. So it was, you know, certainly a little bit of stress there. And I think it's also interesting that you've got individuals who have grown accustomed to working from home and now are struggling, as offices are starting to reopen, and we're starting to bring them back. And so, you know, great example is, you know, those kind of those introverts that don't mind working from home and don't mind people not popping into their office and you know, interrupting their day for 20 minutes. So they kind of enjoy that solace. And now having to come back can also create some anxiety. So are you seeing that at all with any of your client or any of the work you're doing?Jill Kane:
Yeah, I think I've seen the research to that. I don't know what percentage it was. A lot of people want to say the majority are close to it are saying they don't want to go back into the office. I think that you know, I feel like a lot of stuff that was in the works, HR wise, all the changes that were you know, starting to happen and starting to bubble up really like got a factor. Fast forward push, you know, over the past year, so like this whole issue of remote work. And I think it really is the companies that were prepared from a technology standpoint, and also, from just how do you work as a team remotely? Right? There are many companies that do that really well. So is it, you know, the company wants to have that be a golden, they need to put in place some training, you know, support so that people can really understand how they can still be successful working at home. And then people also worry on the other end of it. Like, if I'm not in the office, am I missing out on the relationships that are missing out on a promotion opportunity? Am I going to be overlooked? For those who that is really interesting, too. I'm wondering from a compensation standpoint, like what happens to pay if you're now global, you can have employees from anywhere they can live anywhere? Like how do you base the pay range on hat, right. So there's going to be a lot, I think, a lot of shifts and changes that will occur and have just really started kicking off. So I don't think we're going to ever go back to completely the way we were. But I think that we're going to have even more hybrid opportunities, hopefully more remote opportunities as well. Yeah.Kyle Roed:
So that's one of the areas I wanted to dig into. Because you have a really unique perspective, you do the wellbeing stuff. But you've got years and years of compensation experience. And so how did those two go together? I've got to believe there's a link. But where's the link between comp and wellness?Jill Kane:
Yeah, it's so funny, because I actually met somebody in my certification program that does both comp and wellness. And I was like, wow, like, there is somebody else who does. Yeah. So I look at it, like the employee experience and the whole, like, rewarding employees, you're rewarding them with their pay with the pay programs and policies, it tends to be more of a structure and program kind of angle of it. And then you've got wellness, which is a little bit a little bit more open to interpretation, I guess. But I feel like the entire thing really supports the employee experience, which is what we're seeing as another kind of trend and hot topic coming up from end to end. How do you support employees, because we've got customer service and customer experience teams, and they're focused on the customer and how they're treated from end to end. And I think that we're seeing now, like, even where I work, now, we have an employee experience person, like there are dedicated roles to doing this work, because it is that important to really help people thrive at work. So we can retain the best talent, we can help them continue to progress in their careers, and see those new opportunities. Because even like just thinking about the compensation work that I do part of its job architecture, so how many like levels? Are we gonna have? How many grades and jobs and so it's really like this whole idea of how do you progress in your career. And I feel like well being part of it supports that supports that process. Because when you're well, you know, you're able to really function at a much higher level, right? If you're dealing with financial stress, or you're dealing with emotional stress, and work is telling you, we're not here to support those things, you know, support those on your own. And I think it's sending the wrong message, I think we have to recognize people are whole human beings, and we really need to figure out how we can help support them the best we can.Kyle Roed:
That's Well said. It's just it's really interesting. And I think it's a point well made that you know, there's a lot of different types of stress, financial stress being one of those. And I think you articulated this so well, but it kind of fits the thesis that I think most HR people operate under, which is if you find the right people, and you put them in the right job, and you pay them fairly, you will be successful. And if you design, the structure and the architecture and the compensation to be appropriate, you will win on a number of levels. And ultimately, I think that's all of our goal is to win, but also make sure that we're taking care of the people that helped us win. So good salutely good stuff. And kudos to you for being a compensation for so many years. I I'm not cut out for that work.Jill Kane:
Yes, you're really interesting, especially all these different industries. You know, it's funny because you're getting into that field in my 20s in seeing all these different salaries. So it's sort of like you got all this confidential information. It's a lot of responsibility to put on somebody to know how much a CEO makes and everybody in the company and not like, not share it not be fazed by it and kind of just still do your due diligence of like designing This whole framework of not only how we're going to pay people and new jobs, but like how it all kind of fits together. So it's really interesting to see it from that perspective. And now from the well being perspective of how do we shape that whole employee experience so that people are paid? Well, they're going to stay, but also their experience is really good. And they have opportunities to progress that is the higher chance that they'll stayKyle Roed:
exactly. On the surface. It's very simple, right? You just treat them well, given what they asked for damn the right way. You know, it should work. But it's never quite that simple. Now, sure, we all have our HR stories. Oh, yeah. Every HR person I talked to could write a book. That's the running joke, right? Eventually, we'll write that book. Well, Joe has been absolutely great getting to know you a little bit and learn more about some of your work and want to be mindful of your time. So we're gonna shift gears, we're gonna go into the rebel HR flash round. So these are three questions that we ask all of our guests, and curious to hear your responses here. So question number one, what is your favorite people book?Jill Kane:
So I'm really bad about finishing books. I start a lot of them and don't finish one. I think that's on my Amazon wish list is retention point, or good things about that book? And just I'm reading a couple other books right now, about one's about mindfulness parenting. Yeah. So I have a few things going on. I don't know why I can't just read one book at a time. But I wanted that night, go to the next and don't finish. So. Yeah.Kyle Roed:
Sounds good. I'm kind of that way too. I get started. And then I'm like, Ooh, this one sounds interesting. But I do I have a little bit of a, like OCD, like I do have to finish at a certain point, or I get, you know, yeah, low key anxiety about what's the end of that book.Jill Kane:
I also like 10%, happier than reading that I'm actually a little close to finishing that one. But it's a really good book about Dan Harris, who was a music or any had a anxiety attack, I think online on TV. And so he started picking up meditation, and it's just like all his journey, but it's all like the things you think about when you're first learning it. And it's just really kind of a cool perspective to see how we tried so many different things and how we figured it out. You know, it was it was it's cool. Cool.Kyle Roed:
All right. Question number two, Who should we be listening to?Jill Kane:
So I listen to a ton of podcasts. Most of them have to do with entrepreneurship or business building. But I also like the personal development stuff. So I really like listening to Jim forte. He has a great podcast. I think it's transformed yourself from the inside out like that, but I like all his stuff.Kyle Roed:
Jim fort. Alright. So check that out. I'm not familiar. Last question here. hard hitting question. How can our listeners connect with you?Jill Kane:
Sure is, the best place to reach me would be my website. So it's Gil hyphen, k comm or on LinkedIn, it's just under Gil Kane.Kyle Roed:
Got it. And that's K and it's k in E. Yes. Perfect. And we'll have all that information in the show notes so that our listeners can get connected. And check it out. So Jill, thank you so much again for the time today. And look forward to staying connected here as you continue to focus on wellbeing. All right. You're welcome. Thank you so much. Thanks. All right. That does it for the rebel HR podcast. big thank you to our guests. Follow us on Facebook at rebel HR podcast, Twitter, at rebel HR guy, or see our website at rebel human resources.com. The views and opinions expressed by rebel HR podcast are those of the authors and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any of the organizations that we represent. No animals were harmed during the filming of this podcast baby