Episode 91: HR Must Think Like Marketers with Thad Price

Kyle Roed: 0:00

This is the rebel HR Podcast, the podcast where we talk to HR innovators about all things people leadership. If you're looking for places to find about new ways to think about the world of work, this is the podcast for you. Please subscribe, favorite podcast listening platform today. And leave us a review revelon HR rebels. Alright revelator our listeners extremely excited for this week's show. We have a ton of things to dig into with our guests this week. fad prize fat is the CEO of towelroot, the award winning talent attraction platform, the one of the 17 years of experience in online recruiting and the job search vertical that is recognized thought leader in the HR and TA space, he genuinely believes that there is no industry that plays a more integral role in the economy, use his cross functional experience to turn client feedback into innovative products that help companies hire better. towelroot is a disrupter just like us revenue HR practitioners. And prior to joining salary, he was the VP of Business development@job.com Welcome to the show.

Thad Price: 1:14

Great to be here. Thank you, Kyle and Molly.

Kyle Roed: 1:18

Thank you, thank you for joining us and tickets a time out of your I'm sure extremely hectic schedule, trying to help people understand what in the world is going on? And how do I solve this problem?

Thad Price: 1:29

You got it is definitely a new world. A new world?

Kyle Roed: 1:35

Absolutely. So we're gonna dive into a number of things today. And you know, Molly and I are here. You know, honestly, coming from the standpoint of okay, how do we solve this problem? So we're gonna dive into that a little bit. But before we get into that, I want to ask how did somebody with an economics degree, get into the talent acquisition tech space?

Thad Price: 1:58

That's a great question. Well, I will say that, you know, by having an economics degree, you know, you focus a lot on the labor market, and the labor market drives so much of the economy. So I think that that was the stars aligned and focusing on you know, HR and talent acquisition. So I went to school in a small town in Virginia, Fredericksburg, Virginia, right outside of DC, graduated from University of Mary Washington. And there, I started with the startup. And the idea with that startup at the time, was building products to help job seekers find jobs more effectively, and help employers recruit. And so my entire experience has been, you know, in this industry of trying to ensure that we're, you know, helping job seekers as much as possible, and, of course, aligning with what's important for employers, and that's the right talent, right, great, great people. I say it, you know, so many times, in our walls or virtual walls today, at towel room is great people grow great companies. And I think it's that that drives the economy. And when you help when you help companies find great people, you know, that's the heartbeat. And that's what drives revenue outcomes. And, you know, you know, as I've chatted with other practitioners in this face and leaders in this space over the last couple years, what's exciting is this, you know, this idea and this movement that we've been talking about for a number of years of, you know, HR and talent acquisition, acquisition being a revenue center, versus a cost center, it's happening, folks, it's here, right? We've all been talking about it, this it, if when you find the right people, and you hire the right people, that drives business outcomes, and it's exciting that we're, it's unfortunate, it's taken a pandemic. But it's exciting that we're in this place today really thinking about outcomes in thinking about the strategic function of talent acquisition in HR.

Molly Burdess: 3:49

You mentioned it, but do you feel like that's what caused it was the pandemic? Is that what drove it forward? Or what else are you

Thad Price: 3:55

seeing? Yeah, so early on, we've been seeing this kind of movement in, in how and thinking about thinking about talent as a strategic advantage in so many ways. And it's been my experience that, you know, certain companies have different views on talent and the strategic focus that talent brings them. However, in the last 12 months, there hasn't been a boardroom, across the US or the world that hasn't been faced with making tough decisions around talent and recruiting. And I think there's this enlightenment that essentially is happened and that is how important you know, talent and the right talent is for organization. So I, you know, I would say it started and we've been seeing movement in that direction. And it's all accelerated and accelerated when we're having to shorten our hours if we can't find the right talent we need we're having to close stores or locations when we can't find the talent you need. That cost money and I thinking that is this idea of well, if I'm not, I'm now not generating the revenue I was generating, because I can't, because I can't find the right talent. So I think it's, I think there's this shift has been building. And I think that, you know, this experience, and the last, you know, this experience over the last few years has really kind of shifted a lot of thought process and also job seeker behavior, as well, you know, what we're seeing from job seekers, and what we survey from job seekers. You know, pay is, of course, one of the key components and key factors that, that a job seekers looking at. But the second is flexibility. And as an organization, you know, we have to, we have to have conversations with our leaders, tough conversations, in some cases about, we may not be able to provide flexibility today, but what are we going to do tomorrow, six months from now, 12 months from now, 24 months now, to ensure we're building the foundation for flexibility. And that's the I think that, you know, you're seeing that you're seeing you continue to see that see that shift in what, what job seekers and team members want? And I think that's, we have to address, you know, we have to address those. Those factors.

Molly Burdess: 6:18

You know, what, and Kyle, I'm sure you can relate to this as well. But I think a lot of HR practitioners are like, Yep, I, that flexibility piece that makes a lot of sense. If you are working in an office building on a computer, nine to five, I don't care where you work, but there's so many of us that, like you said, have retail stores, or have, you know, we're in manufacturing where we have to have people there to, to produce whatever we're producing, how do we bring that flexibility? In our world where we have chores, we have ours that have to be attended? I can't figure that piece out.

Thad Price: 6:53

That's a tough one. And you're absolutely right, you know, I would say you almost have to treat this as an entirely different labor pool. A great example, in you know, we're in we're based in Austin, Austin, Texas, of course, and company, one of the top grocery chains in Texas is HGTV, great brand terrific experience. And yes, probably about three to four years, probably about four years ago, now, HGTV acquired a company in town called favor, in favor was an on demand app that allowed anyone to just, you know, bring you something, get something done for you, you know, rather than, you know, do a favor for me. And they, they purchased that company to basically create this on demand experience for delivering groceries to, you know, San Antonio and Austin residents and wherever he has has a presence. And that was smart. And then they treated it as a separate labor pool. The tech stacks are different, the experience is different. And I think I think that's how we have to start thinking about this, you almost I would encourage businesses that almost, you know, try to AB test different technologies and different services, to try to reinvent what this looks like tomorrow, you know what the future looks like for an individual business, because every business is different. But I think if you have this North Star of, we have to get to a point where people can have flexibility, I think first is getting that buy in, and then trying to figure out, okay, how can we incubate a process, a different process that we could potentially use to be effective in the future, to embrace the idea of flexibility. And I think a lot of the businesses that I've seen, another great example is Target, Target, bought a company called shipped a number of years ago, and shipped was, you know, an app that you use to deliver anything. And so, target had this great, you know, could pull from this great talent pool of shift drivers, and they could stand up their own delivery service. So I think as business businesses, we have to start thinking about what that looks like. And that's not easy. But I think strategically, as we move from this kind of tactical, I need to hire these people now I need to get butts in the seat, you know, which is what, which is a lot of what we do. We've got to really think about that strategic future and what that looks like and how we can embrace, you know, what job seekers are really looking for. And if you can break through and embrace what job seekers are really looking for, you know, these create a great experience and you've created a way to widen your talent pool. Otherwise, you know, may, you know, may suffer?

Kyle Roed: 9:41

Yeah, I mean, I think that's, that's, that's a really interesting thought process. And I was just kind of thinking through, you know, separating the talent pools and thinking differently. You know, I mean, my, you know, the honest experiences, the positions that I don't have, specifically listed in a position flexible work options, you know, or potentially, you know, you know, some remote work available, you know, there are some positions that are required to be face to face, but in my business, many of those are, you know, those essential positions that, you know, people are actually putting things together, you know, I don't have flexibility, but in the positions that I do, I have to have it in there, or I just want to get applicants, period, you know, it's hard enough to get applicants for the positions, I don't have that option for trying not to make it harder on myself here.

Molly Burdess: 10:30

Or even changing the workweek, like, I've seen a lot of employers that are going full time, there's now 32 hours a week, or, you know, three, four days a week. So I think there's some things they can do with schedules as well.

Thad Price: 10:43

Yeah. You know, the other thing I would the other thing, I would think this is that it all starts with your with your workplace culture. I mean, that's, you know, regardless of flexibility, and you know, all these features, you know, that we think about and what we can offer, what we can offer talent, it all starts with, you know, your, your company culture, and, and that conversation around that. Because even if you do offer these things, and you have a toxic culture, it's only a matter of time. And, and then of course, you have a retention problem. So, it's, it's tricky.

Kyle Roed: 11:24

Yeah, that is the the million dollar question, right. And I distinctly remember earlier in my career, I was working for a company, actually one of the companies you already mentioned, but I had a great mentor. And, you know, I was complaining about retail setting I was complaining about, you know, I can't find people and Jesus just so hard. And you know, this was, you know, 15 years ago. So my head things have changed, but, but he looked at me, and he, and he just asked me the right question. And he said, What if you just kept the people that were quitting? And it was like, oh, yeah, that is the really the root cause here is?

Molly Burdess: 12:05

Oh, yeah, I definitely think all HR professionals to be looking at, Okay, how many individuals? Have I lost, even in the last year? Or even the last two, three years? Like, you start looking at those numbers? It's like, it's crazy. And is this a staffing issue? Or is this a retention issue? Sorry, go ahead.

Thad Price: 12:29

I was just gonna say in a lot of cases, it's not money. It's, it's more about, you know, the Outlook, you know, it's about the, in some cases, the emotional connection. There's so many drivers, what it means. And I think, you know, companies have to look at that companies have to ensure in this, especially in this situation, we're doing right, by having the right managers in place, the right team members in place, because, you know, that's, that's important, especially with, especially with new managers.

Kyle Roed: 12:59

So one of the things I want to dig into, and I'm gonna, you know, for a guy with an economics degree, and, and and you have, you also have, I mean, you have a really interesting perspective on the labor market, because you are, you're the one out there actually hearing what some of these job seekers want, and helping companies kind of kind of piece that all together. You know, and it's just, it's been really interesting, in my seat to watch people who will, I mean, they will quit a job without having something lined up. And, you know, it's, that's, that's a new thing in the job market, at least in, in my experience. And so, as you as you take this view, and as you're looking at that at the labor market, and and understanding what these job seekers want, you know, what, what are you seeing out there? What, what is kind of prevailing market sentiment?

Thad Price: 13:50

Yeah. So, when we started looking at this at the labor market, and dissecting what was happening, and you know, why employers are having problems finding talent. Now, you know, more than ever, in many cases, there are a couple things that we're seeing. The first is, in the last probably 12 to 24 months. The, you know, we've seen a large amount of baby boomers simply retire more than we have in the last, you know, three, four years. And the reason, the reason is this kind of rational behavior of my house is worth more than it's ever been worse. My 401k is somewhat plentiful, and I'm just tired. I'm tired of having to deal with everything going on. And so I'm out, right, I'm out and I'm, you know, I'm going to reset my lifestyle if I need to, and I'm retired. And so that was the first thing that first kind of shock, I would say that we've been seeing from a labor market perspective. And I will say I don't think there's one of these things we can absolutely point to but it's a lot of things that are acting together. And so I think that's one of them. The second is this idea that I was sharing earlier about flexibility. So if you think, probably four to five years ago, there was a movement, there'd been a movement in the labor market, for some, you know, into some of the marketplaces. And what I mean by that, you know, Uber and Lyft. And, you know, what's referred to is kind of the gig, kind of the gig marketplaces were forming. And people were working when they wanted to work, and they can turn on the app when they wanted to work and turn off the app when they didn't want to work. And I'd been watching because I believe that there was this kind of, there was this impact to certain to certain, a certain section of the labor market, buy these marketplaces. And so suddenly, then you had the, you know, then you had the pandemic, where companies like DoorDash, GrubHub, I mentioned favor in Texas, that just Instacart just had a surge in demand and change to how consumers behave. I think my mom and dad, they never used a delivery app before. But they haven't been to a grocery store. Now they're in their mid 60s, they haven't been in a grocery store for almost two years now. And that has, that's a forcing function that change the way that buyers behave with that means there's more orders coming through these marketplaces. And there needs to be labor to be able to support those orders and deliver those orders. By the way, in that situation is to in that situation as well. You're somewhat socially distancing through being your own boss working through the app. Yes, you're going into pickup food or what are orders, but it's definitely different than what what those folks may have been doing otherwise. Right from a permit distancing perspective. So you know, if you think that the the, the, the key for jobseekers is I want flexibility, and now suddenly, there's a lot more in a lot more demand in these marketplaces, to deliver goods and services, then you have, you have a new way in which you're working. And you know, when you're thinking about those hourly roles, let's say, now you have a new competitor that maybe didn't exist before, and is growing. And so I think that that's the second thing that is, you know, that's creating, you know, some some challenges. And the third is just, I would say, all of the activity, the increase in demand, consumer demand has just created an entire increase in jobs, and people have the power of choice, more choice than they've ever had. And I think those I think those three, you know, kind of three ideas are what's driving what we've been seeing, from job seekers of over the last probably 12 months.

Kyle Roed: 18:06

Yeah, it's fascinating that, you know, I'm thinking about the context of, you know, the kind of the gig economy. You know, if I just think about this personally, so my, my wife's job went fully remote in the midst of the pandemic, they actually close the local office building, well, they're not going to reopen that office building, they just saved a bunch of money. And oh, by the way, they saw, you know, revenue profits increase. So why in the world, would they? Why would they quit doing what was working? And, and, and I will tell you, as well, that there's no way my wife's going back into an office, right now, you know, if they were to come back to her and say, You need to go back to an office, she'd be like, Okay, I'll go work for the competitor, that doesn't make anybody go back in the office. Right. And so it's the the marketplace has just totally shifted. And Molly, you are in the in the retail space. And you're you're certainly I would say, you know, competing with the gig economy, what have you seen?

Molly Burdess: 19:02

Yeah, we've seen just that we've seen a lot of people have a lot of voices. Our problem? We've been getting a ton of applicants, which I've heard from a lot of other people, that's not the case. But we're also getting noticed those interviews or people are, will say yes, and then they'll have, you know, 10 different offers by the time we're through the interview process, and then they're taking other offers, and then we're competing and it's a lot of moving pieces. So yes, we're seeing people are having choices. And we're also seeing our competitors offering huge sign on bonuses, all these cool things and we're just like, we're constantly evaluating how we keep up.

Thad Price: 19:48

I like to think of this idea of the, the, you know, we there's this idea of the clearing wage, which is the wage in which you need to pay in order to be effective with whatever else is out there in the market. I like to think of that is I like to think of that now as the clearing opportunity. Because I think that the expectation of pay is so important on on the minds of job seekers. But I think they've reset, work life balance, you know, to be essentially more important in some cases didn't pay. And so I think this idea of clearing opportunity is like, what is the path look like, you know, what type of flexibility will be provided to me, I think all of those things are now more important to jobseekers than ever before. And I think that's just because of, you know, what, what we've all experienced over the last few years,

Molly Burdess: 20:44

for sure. And we've actually we've cut our hours down a little bit to provide the more of that balance, you know, getting people out of their early as much as we can do in retail anyway. But we're also seeing where people have a set wage in their mind. And it's always the same wage. So I definitely know that that's what's out there are challenged, we're commission based as well. So we have a base wage and then commission and it creates a little bit harder to balance to get people to understand, especially if they've never worked out of commission to like what their potential is. So at our level, we're almost selling an opportunity, right.

Kyle Roed: 21:22

So that's a that's a great segue, Molly, because I want to dig into something with you that and I know that you've, you've done some content and part of Talloires focus is getting getting companies to think in this way. But how, how can we as recruiters start to think like marketers and start to capture the hearts and minds of these job seekers that have all the all the power and authority to make whatever decision they want as it relates to

Thad Price: 21:50

where they work? Great, great question. I think, I think there are a couple of strategies. The first strategy that I would say, more of a low tech strategy is, how quickly are you responding to your applicants, you know, when we think about this, it's just applicants are like a sales, like a sales and marketing lead today. And there have been a number of studies about when you leave a lead, and you don't contact the lead as fast as possible. There's a deterioration of impact and value. You know, I think it's an I forgot what the actual number is, but there's an order of magnitude of ensuring that within the first couple hours, when someone you know, submits the sales lead, you're contacting them, the same should be for for applicants, because, you know, they have more, they have more choice than ever, and it becomes challenging, and that's challenging for a lot of recruiting teams out there because of everything else that's asked. And so it's, it's a tall order, right? It's yeah, it's easier said than done. It's a tall order. And so I would I always encourage customers to think about little things like can we beef up our autoresponder? Do we have an autoresponder on? Can we work with our IT teams to send an autoresponder to an email address where some someone is applying? Are there ways that we can look at our competitors? And, you know, dig into maybe what, you know, what, what jobseekers are sharing on Glassdoor for an example, and call those out in the autoresponder. Just as like simple things, like if someone is saying, you know, this company doesn't have flexibility and you do offer flexibility, then you should call it out. Because you know, that people are, you know, looking and making a lot of different choices, you know, from a, from a, from a rational behavior standpoint, if you know, it's important for people. So I would almost think of it as in sales and marketing, what you typically do is you build battle cards, and the battle cards are, you know, like a simple PowerPoint that, you know, you just kind of look at your competitors. And you basically, you basically pair up your features with, you know, there are features, so that you have some talking points, and I would encourage all companies to do those curves, all companies to think about, okay, who am I competing for, for talent? And how can I have a focused effort around? What's important, what am I learning? What can I gather, and how can I ensure that I'm selling those key pieces that my competitor may not be selling, or may not be offering in those conversations indirectly. So, you know, I think the idea of like talent, battle cards and autoresponders and all these things that we can do to help connect with the candidates may be a way that is is not adding another tech stack to the already complicated, you know, talent acquisition suite There's are two two suggestions that I think that that should be fairly easy to implement.

Kyle Roed: 25:09

I'm thinking about it and thinking about it in the context of what we just talked about. So you know, we just talked about competing with the gig economy. And so I'm thinking about this. So, you know, as an employer that let's say, I'm seeking for a retail worker, or I need you, I need somebody in person. But I can offer a little bit of flexibility. But I can't, I'm never going to be able to offer as much flexibility as DoorDash, or Uber or whatever, right? You're just not going to compete on that. So, okay, I give up on that. So that is the focus, then, okay, we have flexibility here. But here's the differentiation between us and DoorDash. Like you actually get to work with co workers, you actually get this connection to society or something along those lines,

Thad Price: 25:54

you can be a manager, you, right, you upward mobility here, right? All those things that are important, because, you know, if if someone is just looking for a transactional relationship, you know, I'm not sure if that's, you know, I'm not sure if that's, that may get you to a certain extent, but I think that I think that a transaction relationship isn't necessarily what all companies want, I think companies want someone that is going to, I think someone that's willing to dig in, build their career, you know, aspire to be more than what they are, and work hard to get there. And so I think the idea of creating, you know, testimonials around folks that have maybe worked up in the organization, is a great way or video with with team members that have worked up in the organization, is a great way to connect to the people, when I, you know, am I shared earlier about the clearing opportunity to speak to that clearing opportunity, it's not all about money, it's not about all these other things, it's about what this company can offer you, and how and how we make that happen. Saddle card,

Molly Burdess: 27:03

I love that idea.

Kyle Roed: 27:04

We can do it, Molly, do it.

Thad Price: 27:09

But but that's but it's a great example of something that sales and marketing teams traditionally, you know, work together on, and how we need to think about that in talent acquisition, because, you know, if you think about the journey of a job seeker, and you think about all the touch points that happen, it's so similar to a sales process, and a marketing process. So think of think of like, think of marketing and sales. So you know, you're generating marketing, qualified leads, someone has been to a site and filled out a form. And your marketing team has now qualified that form and said, Okay, this is someone that we should talk to. And so then the sales team talks to that, that lead that individual. And then on a, you know, appointment is set, and through that, maybe an MSA is sent or a contract is sent. And the customer either buys or doesn't by, think of it with applicants, someone submits the resume, they submit a form, they say, hey, they're raising their hand and say, I want to come work for you. Then your either your technology or your recruiters are screening that lead that applicant, and then you're setting in a phone, you're setting a phone call to basically, you know, chat about qualifications, then you're working with the hiring manager. And then what happens is we have we either sent, send an offer, or we don't, and they either sign or they don't. And that's so similar to a sales and marketing experience. And that's why I think that there's, you know, when you break it down, you know, to that journey process that happens, I think there's a lot we can learn. And, you know, I think there's a lot we can learn and how we can borrow things that are, you know, appropriate for recruiting and appropriate for talent acquisition.

Kyle Roed: 28:55

Well, you're speaking right to the heart of me, I mean, I don't know, Molly knows this, but my undergrad degree was in marketing. And when and I had nothing to do with HR, like, it was like, I tell people HR found me, right. Which actually ended up the person got fired, and they're like, go you hear you like people you do this, right, you know, go hire 90 People for the holidays, by the way. But for me, it was like it was like that. That's the equation, right? It's like, oh, I just have to recruit. Which means Yeah, it's just marketing. I have to, but the product is the job. And you know, the customer is the is the job seeker. And but you just have to make the right connection. Right. So so as we think about the kind of the, the sourcing, you know, is the sourcing of candidates, like where we actually post and the channels that we go through? Is that actually secondary to the kind of the value proposition that we're putting in front of them or how do you think about that?

Thad Price: 29:49

The first thing I would say is we have to understand, you know, we have to understand the job. Right. And you know, there's the we like to think of it as there's the wreck and there's the job advertisement you And I think these are very different in how we think about it. And, you know, the job advertisement is what tries to attract, you know, a candidate, and we raise our hands and say, Hey, we're looking to hire someone, and candidates then raise their hand and they say, I want it to be me, because they apply. And they research in this journey, this journey happens. I think that there is an experience around a candidate looking at a job, then researching the company. And then once they're researching the company, then they're making the decision if I want to apply or not. And I think that that is a big piece of it. But I would say to your question, when you think of primary versus secondary, I think, you know, what field, I guess the it was a garbage in, garbage out. And so you know, if you, if you if you're in a situation where your job ad isn't speaking to the benefits as much as possible, of a company, and you know, you're not being as transparent as you should be with the true value proposition of working for that company, then you're not going to have as much success, advertising and attracting talent. And I always, you know, I share that it's important to be as transparent as possible in the job advertisement, because when you aren't, they're going to find out, they're going to do their homework, they're going to research, they're going to ask friends, they're going to, you know, try to research your company. So it's just important to just be as transparent as possible in the job ad. And then once you're in a situation where you feel like, okay, you know, how going back to your marketing days, this is my ad copy. Right? So this is the ad copy that we want to showcase. And this is how we want to ensure that we're aligned, then you can start kind of the idea of, alright, where am I going to source? And, you know, how do I, how do I invest in sourcing and where do I go? And how do I make sure that it's efficient, and it's effective for my, for my recruitment, marketing spend?

Kyle Roed: 32:07

I think that's so right. And to, you know, to circle back to where we began this conversation, you know, if that transparency isn't there, and people don't have a realistic job preview, and they've been sold something for lack of a better term. And then they get there. And it's not what they thought they were buying, guess what, they're not going to stick around very long. You've just tarnished your image and your integrity in their mind. And yeah, so very, very well said. So, that being said, like, I think I said before a recording, we're not even going to scratch the surface on this, this is all like, I'm just totally nerding out right now. But you are the CEO of an extremely busy HR recruiting tech solution. So we are going to shift gears and go into the rebel HR flash round. Question number one, what is your favorite people book?

Thad Price: 33:01

I would say my favorite people book as of late as of late or, or any deal, I would say probably, I'm going to go with a time honored classic. And that's One Minute Manager. So just a time honored Classic is one of the first books, you know, when I was managing folks that that I read, and it just there's so many keys to that, you know, to that book that you can use in your everyday life. So it's classic for me. All right, perfect.

Kyle Roed: 33:32

I have actually not read that book, which I'm kind of, but it's good. I got to put it on the list. I've heard good things. Question number two, who should we be listening to?

Thad Price: 33:45

Well, you know, as I said, when we were talking earlier, we should all be listening to our partner. And that's always the case. Add a little humor to this conversation. But you know, I think that, you know, an individual that I listen to a lot is Branson, and I do that Richard Branson, because I do that because there's a good balance between performance and I think there's a good balance between performance humility, and emotional connection. And from a leadership perspective, I think that's so important more today than ever, and, and the connection to the team members. So, you know, I really, I really think that that's important. And I'm reading another reading another book right now, about that was a Netflix based on Netflix. I think the name of it is I actually have it right here. No rules, no rules, rules Netflix. And you know, it's the idea of reinvention of, of, of Netflix. And you know what happened when they moved from DVDs to streaming and what it is Today, and you know, the focus on building a high performance culture. And I think that's really important. But you have to ensure the emotional connection to your team members. When you're moving in that direction to a high performance culture or you're moving fast, or you're, you know, you're, you're leading the charge and you're focusing on innovation, it's so important to have that connection. Because you can lose, you can lose that when you lose that connection to your team members. I think you, you lose a lot from a cultural perspective and organization perspective. So that's one of the reasons why I think he's an interesting, he's an interesting character.

Kyle Roed: 35:40

Plus, the guy's got his space cowboy. Right. That's pretty cool. Tune in for that. That's, that's super cool, right? I can't say that. Alright, last question. Want to make sure that our listeners can can get connected and learn more about yourself and towers? So how can our listeners connect with you and learn more?

Thad Price: 35:57

You can connect with me on LinkedIn, feel free to, you know, connect to ask questions, can check us out at towelroot calm, happy to share more about our story. Or you can just send me an email at T price pri cee@towelroot.com. It's been great to be here this afternoon. And I really appreciate it. I wish you all the best.

Kyle Roed: 36:20

Thank you so much. We will have all that information in the show notes. Open up your podcast player, click and check it out. It's tal RW it's ta lro.com A bunch of great stuff on there. They do have a lot of solutions for some of the things we were talking about today. So I'll give you that final plug said thank you so much for spending some time out of your busy schedule to talk to us. And revelon ito rebels. All right, that does it for the rebel HR podcast. Big thank you to our guests. Follow us on Facebook at rebel HR podcast, Twitter, at rebel HR guy, or see our website at rebel human resources.com. The views and opinions expressed by rebel HR podcast are those of the authors and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any of the organizations that we represent. No animals were harmed during the filming of this podcast. Maybe