Rebel Human Resources Podcast

RHR 119: HR By Design with Jodi Brandstetter

September 27, 2022 Kyle Roed, The HR Guy Season 3 Episode 119
Rebel Human Resources Podcast
RHR 119: HR By Design with Jodi Brandstetter
Show Notes Transcript Chapter Markers

Talent Maven 

Jodi has 20 years of HR and recruiting experience and is certified in design thinking. Her expertise in recruiting and retaining top talent is a gamechanger for small and midsize companies in science, manufacturing, engineering, and tech. Her bestselling book, Hire by Design, is the playbook for strategic and intentional, humanfocused talent acquisition. Her book is a perfect mix of “writing the rules,” while also being delivered in an approachable and enjoyable way. It is the book that meets business needs in today’s world. 

Jodi believes every business expert has a book inside of them. As a Recruiting expert and bestselling author, Jodi understands how a book can open doors to promote your expertise as well as your business. As a hybrid publisher, Jodi has been able to help over 20 business experts become best-selling authors. Through a simplistic writing process and a best-selling strategy, Jodi and her team can open doors for success for business experts through a book. 

https://linkedin.com/in/jodibrandstetter 
https://jodibrandstetter.com 
 

Rebel HR is a podcast for HR professionals and leaders of people who are ready to make some disruption in the world of work.

We'll be discussing topics that are disruptive to the world of work and talk about new and different ways to approach solving those problems.

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Jodi Brandstetter:

If you can just understand your audience, and make that the area you focus on, you're going to be a better HR professional. You know, if you don't like brainstorming, you're probably going to come up with solutions just based off of understanding your audience. So, it's really important to understand that it doesn't have to happen step one through step 10. You know, be willing to take a methodology and use it in the way that works best for you. It's very fluid.

Kyle Roed:

This is the rebel HR Podcast, the podcast where we talk to HR innovators about all things people leadership. If you're looking for places to find about new ways to think about the world of work, this is the podcast for you. Please subscribe on your favorite podcast listening platform today. And leave us a review. Rebel on HR rebels. Welcome back revelation, our listeners extremely excited for the conversation today. I have a kindred spirit with me today Jody brand setter. She believes every HR professional needs to use design thinking methodology to solve complex HR challenges. She has written a book called HR by design that has recently been released. And she also wrote a book hire by design. Welcome to the podcast. God,

Jodi Brandstetter:

thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Kyle Roed:

You know, I'm I'm kicking myself, because I forgot one other really important thing in the bio, it is the fact that you have a wrap on the disrupt HR website from disrupt HR. So if you want to, you know, really fill up your cup with some some wholesome rap. Jody, is your gal there too?

Jodi Brandstetter:

Absolutely. Let's, let's just make sure they know it's 90s Invoke? It should be singing, but let's be honest, it's not singing me. rapping?

Kyle Roed:

Well, I love it, you know, and, and it's one of the things we were talking before we hit record, you know, we can have a little bit of fun at work, can't we? You know, let's let's let's not take ourselves too serious all the time?

Jodi Brandstetter:

Absolutely, we should be laughing two thirds of the time, in my opinion.

Kyle Roed:

Well, I love it. And so, you know, I'm really excited for the conversation today, I think it's gonna be really helpful. And it's a different way of thinking about the work that we do. And that is design thinking. So before we really dive into it, I want to kind of calibrate on what is design thinking.

Jodi Brandstetter:

So design thinking is a methodology to solve problems. And what it does is it looks at the human side, as well as the business side when solving that challenge. So it really ensures that the solution is desirable for the person, but also feasible and viable for the business. And if you look at human resources, our whole goal is to ensure that we have the people in place to help our business succeed. And if to do that, we have to understand what the people want, and what the business wants. So it goes hand in hand.

Kyle Roed:

You know, it's really interesting, that I won't claim to be an expert on design thinking, but I the way that you described, it just makes so much sense. And so often, especially in human resources, we feel like there's this tug of war between, quote, the business and the employees. Right. And we're in a lot of times, we're kind of caught in the middle. So does design thinking kind of help us with that? That equation a little bit? Is that what I'm understanding?

Jodi Brandstetter:

Yeah, I think so it helps you recognize that you are this vessel that can help both sides of of the world, right? So instead of feeling pushed, and pulled or being the middleman, it helps you understand the person sides of people, but then also recognize what the business needs and then create, you know, you get to put on your creative hat and kind of brainstorm on how can you solve both problems together? Or what's the best solution that's going to work for both sides? So I do think that it's a way for us to kind of flip the script to think about how we're in the middle and how we can actually make that a positive thing not a negative thing.

Kyle Roed:

Absolutely, I think you know, it's, it's a really interesting approach. What prompted you to write a book on it, cuz to write a book is a big undertaking right. So clearly, you have some passion towards this. So what what prompted the book?

Jodi Brandstetter:

Yeah, so this is my second book. So I am really crazy because I voted myself to write two books, which is, you know, I guess once you do at once, it makes it a little bit easier the second time, but I was so I own my own consultancy business. And I was and one of the things they always tell you is that you have to set yourself apart right you have to be different than You're, you know, your competitors. And so I was looking at well, there has to be a methodology that can help me help my clients. And I started researching and I found design thinking, and then I was out and I was like, oh, that sounds good. And then I kind of went on with my way. And then I was down at HR southwest. And I was speaking about hiring. And I went into a session and a woman was talking about design thinking. And I was and I was like, Oh my gosh, yes. Like, what, why am I waiting? This is absolutely the methodology that I should be using with my, with my clients. And when I got really excited about it, I wanted to kind of like yell off the rooftops and tell everyone about it. And I'm in Cincinnati, Ohio, and my voice isn't loud enough to get to the coast, you know, the West Coast, East Coast. So I was like, How can I, like really, you know, kind of impact our industry and tell people about this. And I thought a book, I can write a book. And so I started with the hire by design, because that's my forte talent acquisition is my love my passion. And then I was like, You know what, I need to make this even more accessible for all of HR. And that's when I decided to do HR by design, which is a micro book, by the way, it takes about an hour and a half to read, which is my kind of book. I have a seven year old, I do not have time to read a six hour book, I will not retain it.

Kyle Roed:

I like that I think I think many of us, can I have a I have a six to seven and a 10 year old. So I'm right there. I'm right there in the thick of it with you. I feel Yeah.

Jodi Brandstetter:

I feel like I went from Elmo goes potty to now I'm in, you know, the whole like, pigeon and Mo Williams world. And I never, I never get to read an adult book. Like never. So. So that was you know, when I decided to write the second book, I was like, let's make it short and sweet. And to the point, let's not waste any, you know, paper, let's let's get this done in a very simplistic way. So that, again, my whole my whole dream is for HR to look at this and say I can do this daily. And a you know, 600 page book does not make it feel like you can do it daily.

Kyle Roed:

Yeah, it's, I feel Yeah. Although I will say, you know, even as my kids are getting older, I still have that Elmo potty song stuck in my head, you know, and that, you know, it's like it's in there. It's and him dancing on the potty is like seared into my memory. So eventually, maybe that'll fade? I don't know.

Jodi Brandstetter:

I don't know, because I have it too. And, and for some reason, whenever I think of a buck as a toddler, for my daughter, that's the first one I think of

Kyle Roed:

potty training. Yeah, so anyways, HR. So I do think it's, you know, all kidding aside, I think it is so challenging sometimes as an HR professional to really, truly take a step back and think about and invest time in. Okay, how do I approach my job? How do I approach being the best HR professional I can be? And, you know, I think what's really interesting about the design thinking kind of marriage with HR, you know, kind of the HR strategy is that, you know, what you've just described makes sense. I mean, that's kind of what we're trying to do on a daily basis. But, you know, design thinking is not necessarily something we think about doing it, you know, with. So as you think about design thinking, and then you think about kind of building an HR strategy or or, or a game plan. You know, what are some of the things that we should be thinking about in human resources and kind of where do we start with this type of approach.

Jodi Brandstetter:

So the very first thing you do with design thinking as you understand your audience, so your audience are going to be the people in your organization, as well as your business leaders and your stakeholders. So the first thing you really have to understand is, you know, who are they? What are they looking for, what drives them, what motivates them, and with design thinking, you do that through observation, and interviewing, and also immersing yourself into empathy. So that's the very first thing is that you better know your employees, everyone inside and out. And that is why it's so impactful to actually go out and be with them wherever they're at, and get to know them and listen to their conversations and, and really, like see what they do on a day to day basis. I know that can be really hard for HR, we have a lot of work to do, right? I mean, we get stuck with a lot of stuff, but if we can, you know, just take 10 or 15 minutes a day and walk out and just kind of be with our with the employees and get to know them and that could be literally going into a zoom call, right because everyone's kind of hybrid at this point. Or you know, going you know directly into In office and seeing them but really understanding them. And then the second step is then understanding the business. What is the business trying to do? What is their strategy? What's the business plan? Where do we want to go in three to five years, you know, making sure that we are a part of those conversations, because then we're going to be able to connect what the people want and what the business wants, and really be able to solve some of those challenges that we're facing within organizations. You know, you just saw the suppose email that must just sent out about everyone having to be in the office for 40 hours, right? Is it real? Is it not? I don't know. But if it is, I will tell you that he did not understand maybe what his employees were looking for. The Empathy may have been lacking, but maybe not, maybe he knows his team. And that's what they want, I don't know. But when you look at that email, empathy was missing. And so you know, that's something that HR can be bringing to the table, when business is making these decisions, they can say, here's the perspective of your employees. Here's what I've heard. And this is what they're looking for, here's our suggestions on how to solve this, where the people are going to either be excited, or be able to understand the solution or the you know, where you go. So those, you know, understanding your audience is like really, really big with design thinking. It's like a good third of what you're doing when you're using design thinking to solve problems.

Kyle Roed:

That makes sense. And and you know, that I think that Elon Musk's example is is really kind of interesting, because it's, you know, if anybody hasn't seen it, or or isn't sure what we're talking about, he sent out an email that basically said, everybody has to come back to the office for at least 40 hours a week or, or we will consider you to have voluntarily quit, is basically what the what the alleged message said, you know, who knows, but it's funny, because then literally, like, within a few hours on, you know, like recruiter Twitter, then I can't tell you how many people were like, Hey, does anybody know how I can get into contact with a bunch of Tesla engineers? Because we'd love to go, you know, poach them all, because I'm sure they're all completely frustrated right now. Because that that's the risk, right? It's almost like it's going viral in the wrong way.

Jodi Brandstetter:

Absolutely. I mean, unfortunately, it's not showing the company in the light, where people are going to want to like jump on board, even if you're okay with going in the office every day, right? It just, it didn't have any, any feelings or emotions in it. And then again, like, I was talking to someone, and they're, like, 40 hours, that's a work week, like that should be my work week. What do you mean, at least 40 hours? And I'm like, Well, you know, that's a different world. Tesla, you know, you might be working 1214 16 hours a week? And really, do you need to do that? Probably not. But it is it just didn't, it just did not show him as someone who understood potentially his employees, what they need. And then I didn't like the the last part, like if you have a, you know, pretty much a performer who doesn't want to all approve them myself, you know, individually, and it's like, oh, so maybe two people might get to work from home. And everybody else has to come in. But who's going to raise their hand and say, I'm a top performer and I want to want to work from home. After that kind of email. Probably no one.

Kyle Roed:

I think we can all agree that HR did not review that before it was sent out.

Jodi Brandstetter:

I don't feel like Elon Musk is like, the favorite person for HR. Like it's not like I want him as the owner of my business. You know it. Now, maybe I'm getting a little too saucy there. But if it feels like he might be an HR problem, would be a

Kyle Roed:

huge pain to work with. Yeah, he he'd be that guy. He'd be like, Oh, great. What did what did? What did Ilan send today? What message? Am I cleaning up? Right? Bring out the cleanup crew, put your bulletproof vest on. We're gonna take some slugs today. You know?

Jodi Brandstetter:

How cool would it be if you were the HR person who who got him to understand the impact of his voice with his employees like you a HR Rockstar, like everyone would want to hire you?

Kyle Roed:

Yeah, open call. If if anybody is currently in HR and Tesla, I would love to talk to you. And maybe we're wrong, right? Maybe Maybe this is you know, just the perception of a couple of HR people, you know, sitting on the sidelines, but I think it's interesting, right?

Jodi Brandstetter:

We're making a lot of assumptions. We all know what When you assume means, well, you know, we might be doing that to ourselves right now.

Kyle Roed:

Absolutely. Yeah, probably maybe, I don't know. You know, the other one. The other thing I wanted to touch on a little bit was that, you know, you mentioned, you know, there's two parts to this, right, there's the audience, there's the, you know, observation, interviewing, having empathy, you know, listening to kind of like, you know, your, the people you're serving. And a lot of times we talk about that in HR, it's, it's really easy to say we're doing that it's really challenging to do, but I think a lot of HR people are, you know, are pretty good at that. But in the same context, you also need to understand the business, right. And that means that you, you have to be, you know, knowledgeable in the work that needs to be done, and how you fit into that work, and what your team's challenges are, so that you can truly support them. And it's kind of going back to where we started this conversation, I think one of the challenges is, a lot of times you'll find an HR professional, who's really good at the audience side. And really, really in tune with that, but maybe struggles a little bit on the business side, or you see that HR professional, where they are rocking the business side strategy, calculating good decision maker, but missing the audience side of the equation, and you know, it's trying to marry those two things together can be can be kind of a challenge. So as you think about utilizing design thinking, how does that help us kind of understand and kind of and prevent those kind of those natural biases towards, you know, one or the other.

Jodi Brandstetter:

So I think that the first thing we have to say, as HR professionals is we understand where we lack capabilities, or we lack experience or knowledge, right? So the first thing is, we have to accept that maybe we're not the best at understanding the employees, or we may not be the best at understanding the business. So once you like, you know, kind of say, Okay, this is an area I need to grow on, then you have to be smart about it and say, Well, how can I either become better, who can I tap to be my wing man, and help me with this, and that's the thing with design thinking is, you can absolutely do this by yourself, you can do the whole design thinking process alone. So if you're an HR company, no department have one, you can use this. But if you have an HR team, come together, collaborate, and see who who understands what, and then get together, and be able to share each of those perspectives in a way that people will understand it and be able to be willing to listen to both sides. And you know, a lot of times, it's just again, just being willing to get out there, raise your hand and say, I don't know anything about finance. But I want to learn what we you know, our finance strategies, or, you know, whatever, see, I'm horrible at finance, I don't even know, I want to understand the financial statement, I don't know what you want to learn about. I want to learn about finance. Teach me right. And, and there's, there's something about going and like observing, and just being a part of those meetings and soaking it in that you can start to soak in their language, what they do, and all of a sudden, you're starting to get kind of your own little mini MBA by actually just being a part of different departments of your organization.

Kyle Roed:

Absolutely. And I think, you know, I think that's a great, a great call out. And, you know, I think it goes back to what you kind of described earlier, right? It's, it's the, it's understanding the audience a little bit, right, you know, in your finance, people are your audience, right? So, you know, you could actually kind of do both. In a way you can go, you can make sure you understand the business by also ensuring that you completely understand your audience. Right. So it's like a, it's kind of like a, you know, a full circle thing there.

Jodi Brandstetter:

Absolutely. And that's the other thing. I think a lot of people look at using like a methodology and going, Oh, my gosh, there's so many steps are so many touch points, how am I supposed to do this with my job, and you can absolutely be able to get those two for one ideas, right. So I work with a company right now who's trying to really do a better job at their selection process. And so I asked them to understand the hiring manager as well as the candidate and they looked at me like, how do I do that? And I go, go shadow the interviewer. Wow, you just get to shadow the candidate. And the hiring manager. It's a two for one, it's a two for one deal, you know, like, take those times to like brainstorm and think how is the best way for me to use my time to do this? And what's amazing about design thinking is it's not hard in stone, like you can't skip a stop and go back. I mean, you can absolutely be willing to be creative with the whole design thinking approach. But unless you're willing to you know, actually step out there and and be bold. Normal and be willing to learn, you're not going to be able to use design thinking.

Kyle Roed:

Interesting. So I think it's, you know, what's, what's fascinating about this, this conversation is, you know, we're talking about a system, we're talking about a structure. But what? You know, to me it sounds like, it sounds like it's it's not really overly complicated. But that doesn't mean it's necessarily easy, right? You just have to be thoughtful and intentional about actually leveraging this system.

Jodi Brandstetter:

Yes, it is definitely something that you can go through the whole design thinking process in a day and an hour, if you want. Or it could be a six month to a nine month project. I mean, it really depends on the question you're trying to solve. It depends on how many people need to be a part of the process to be able to use design thinking. And honestly, I'm someone who says you don't have to use all of design thinking, if you can just understand your audience, and make that the area you focus on, you're going to be a better HR professional. You know, if you don't like brainstorming, you're probably going to come up with solutions just based off of understanding your audience. So it's really important to understand that it doesn't have to happen. Step one through step 10. You know, be willing to take a methodology and use it in the way that works best for you. It's very fluid.

Kyle Roed:

Absolutely. You know, I think it's, it's, it's really interesting, you know, I think there's, there's so many applicable things there. That, that you could leverage, I am curious to maybe dig into this, you know, a little bit more, you know, for organizations where maybe HR is not at the level of importance in the organization that they'd like to be, or maybe is struggling to gain support for, you know, an HR strategy, or an HR mission, or, or just a person to help in HR, because we have all of these things to do, how can you leverage this system to help kind of establish that need, establish that credibility and kind of elevate HR?

Jodi Brandstetter:

I think so I think you can come up with a challenge statement or question, pretty much saying like, how can we, you know, build an HR strategy where our business leaders accept and are willing to utilize moving forward or are willing to allow us to be a part of the, the actual, you know, conversations about business strategy, and include a people strategy. And you can, you know, again, use that, understand your audience, and then be able to be creative and think of some solutions, which is kind of that brainstorming ideation part of design thinking. And then using the ability to use a prototype, to be able to come up with a potential strategy, to then you know, kind of pitch to your business, and see what they think about including that into their strategy. You know, if you do it, right, you're, you're slowly going to be building fans of HR in the business. And when you are really showing that you care about what they do, and what they and what the business is trying to strive for, you're, you're gonna start to see people actually wanting to spend time with you, as an HR professional, instead of run away from you. And the prototype is something that we use every day in HR, like everyone freaks out, when I say prototype, they think I'm gonna make them like, you know, get some cardboard and some tape and some glue, and they're gonna have to, like build something. When, when actually like, when I was, in corporate America, we had this thing called the sandbox, where we would play in the hrs system to see if things work. Guess what, that's a prototype. You know, when you have a draft of something, that's a prototype. So it's just letting you get get something out there that's easy, cheap and able to get feedback on. And then guess what, how cool would it be if you had this people strategy prototype, that you present it to business executives or business leaders said, I want your opinion on this. This is what we came up with. This is why we came up with it. Here's what we learned from from your teams. This is what we feel like we need to be bringing to the table when you're doing your business strategy. How does it look? We would love to be able to get your feedback and tweak it. I'm pretty sure a lot of business executives would be like, Oh crap, HR just brought me something that x you know, like, let's look at it's a strategy. It's a If they've looked at what we're doing, and they build something around what they do like it, it's one of those things that if we take the time to do that, understand your audience so impactful, you start to understand what they want from you. And then all of a sudden, you're going to start to be able to build those relationships stronger. And then they're gonna start to see HR as part of, you know, I don't get what they say, put get the seat at the table, we're not in the corner, crying, you know, we're at the table. Or pounding on the door, like, let us in, you know, build your business case, that's what every business executive does every day, practically, is build business cases on how to keep the business running. So build your own business case, through design thinking, and it's probably going to match very similar to what they provide to you.

Kyle Roed:

Yeah, I love that there's so much there's so much good content there, I want to back up that because you literally you said the word prototype, and I wrote down prototype and circled it, because I'm like, oh, I want to talk about it. And then you and then you, you knew I was gonna, you probably saw the look on my face, you're like, Oh, this guy's gonna, this guy's gonna do. But I think it's really powerful. And but that's how, like, That's how good ideas come into being right? Like, you know, they didn't build an Apple iPhone, the first try, right? You know, they, they built a little computer in a in a shed, and then iterated on it, like, you know, millions of times and made an iPhone, right? It's the same thing and human resources, you're not going to come up with the right, you know, hiring program, or HR strategy, or, you know, employee relations approach, without actually trying it and learning. I mean, you know, that's how that's how our brains work. That's how we learn. You do have to prototype a little bit. So yeah, I want to call that out.

Jodi Brandstetter:

And I love that you just said iteration, because that is also a part of design thinking. And that's something that we and HR sometimes forget to do, is that we create, we create this amazing selection process. And we just let it sit there and gather dust, and cobwebs. And we never go back to it and say is it working? Is it not working? You know, we you know, I hate talking about COVID. But during COVID, we had to iterate nonstop, because we couldn't, you know, have our teams in the office anymore. So how are we going to collaborate? How are you going to do these employee relations issues? Are we really going to be using zoom to lay people off? I mean, there's all these these things that we had to fix and tweak. And that's iteration. And so anytime we create something in HR, we should never let it be stagnant. It should always be evolving. Because we as people are businesses, we are always evolving new technology, new ways of doing things. So it should never just sit there and gather dust.

Kyle Roed:

Absolutely, yeah. 100% aligned on that, you know, I mean, and that's part of I mean, I spent my early career in like big corporate America. And it was so frustrating to me that it was everything was everything was a best practice. And it was like gospel, you know, this was this is the unquestionable truth. And you must do it this way. Right. But it's like, that's not how the world works. I mean, today, just today, literally a few hours ago, I spent 30 minutes with my team working through an HR onboarding workflow, because we found out that our workflow, missed a couple people in who needed to understand a new hire was starting, you know, something that simple, has such profound ripple effects and can be a huge disservice to satisfier to a hiring manager, if it doesn't work. Right. Right. So it's like, I can't just sit here and say, you know, what, we built this, we built this three years ago, and it's still working just fine. So you know, deal with it, you'll just have to, you know, work through it. Well, that's not, that's not going to, you know, make people feel like, wow, Kyle's really got my back, you know, his team is really running on all cylinders here. Good. Good job, buddy. You know, like, that's not how it works.

Jodi Brandstetter:

And you think about it, like we we get a lot of like surveys and feedback, right? Like, we have our employee surveys, we have all these surveys with feedback. And I think a lot of times one of the things that we're lacking is recognizing some of those issues that employees are having, and actually connecting the dots and saying, Oh, that might that might be because of this policy, or, Oh, we never thought about this and then actually revisiting that, tweaking it. But then even taking some the next step and telling people that we did it said, we heard you, and this is what we did, a lot of times we'll fix it and then not tell anyone about it either. Right? And then no one knows that we actually paid attention to them. So I think there's so many different levels of iteration but then also the communication that has to the has to happen.

Kyle Roed:

Absolutely. Yeah. 100% And then you know, shifting into kind of one of the other main topics that you shared your a few comments ago is the first of all, I hate the term seat at the table. I think it's like, you know, like, you know, if you don't like, you know, if you don't get a seat at the table, then you just need to change what you're doing. But But I think one of the ways that you get that, you know, and I think the better way to think about it is, how do you gain the respect of your leaders? You know, that's, I think that's more important than being in the room. Right? Like, because once you get respect, and they believe in you, and you are, you are that person that they rely on to help support them and people practices, they're going to ask you to be there, you don't, you don't have to fight for anything. Like, they're going to be like, we're, you know, where's Jody? Why isn't she in here, she needs to give us her opinion on this, right. But the way you do that is by building a strategy. Having a plan, like owning your own internal HR business. And using a protocol or a system or a methodology to do that, is going to make that so much easier. Which is why I think this conversation is so important, because that helps you gain that respect.

Jodi Brandstetter:

Absolutely. And the other thing, just to just piggyback on what you just said, the other piece is that you actually, you know, I think a lot of times, we put up a facade on an HR, because we have to, you know, handle these processes and policies, and we don't actually show our true personality, we don't show our vulnerability, we don't show that we can fail. And I can't tell you how many times I have built stronger relationships with business leaders. When I when I went up to them, I looked them in the eye and said, You know, I messed up, I failed. And this is what I did wrong. And this is what I'm going to do better. Or I've literally had at one point of a manager, who his team kind of threw my employee under the bus and I got mad. And when I get mad, I cry. And I was freaking out, like, Oh, my God, he's gonna, like think I'm, you know, like, what's he gonna think of me, he actually respected me because he could tell him the passion in my, in me about keeping, not only, you know, making sure my employee has a safe and wonderful environment to work in, but how passionate I was about the business, because my employee was part of the business, which she did impact to the business. And all of a sudden, I have more respect from this, you know, Director, because I was willing to, you know, step up for my employee, but also show that vulnerability side show, you know, show me, and a lot of times I never showed people me when I was in HR, I always had a facade on. So take the facade off via person.

Kyle Roed:

There you go. I love that. And isn't that part of design thinking that you're not going to get right the first time?

Jodi Brandstetter:

No, failure is a part of it. Right? Right. And it says fail fast. And I yeah, you could probably fail fast, but, you know, fail, just fail. You know, just just be willing to accept that we are not perfect, no one is perfect. Let's, you know, get past the perfection. And and that's the other thing is with design thinking is you don't tweak it to the point of exhaustion, you tweak it till it works. And then you let it work. And then you look at it again. So that you're not you know, you wanted to actually go out and be a part of the be a part of the world versus, you know, stuck in a corner and no one's doing your process because you're too scared because it may not be perfect.

Kyle Roed:

I love it. We're gonna leave it there, we're going to shift into the rebel HR flash round. So really excited that this is gonna be fun one here. All right. Question number one, where does HR need to rebel?

Jodi Brandstetter:

We need to unveil what that facade take the facade off and be a human and be willing to, you know, get in front of your, your business leaders and get in front of your employees.

Kyle Roed:

Absolutely. Absolutely. Question number two, who should we be listening to?

Jodi Brandstetter:

We should be looking listening to our employees, we should be listening to them. In the office, we should be listening to them on social media, we should be looking at Glass Door getting any kind of information we can get from our employees so that we can really be able to help them.

Kyle Roed:

Love it. I had a feeling you might say that.

Jodi Brandstetter:

You mean, I feel like I kind of hit hit it really hard in this during this whole conversation. It's

Kyle Roed:

good. It's been good. I think we I think we loud clear. All right. Last question, how can our listeners connect with you?

Jodi Brandstetter:

They can connect with me on LinkedIn. I'm Jody Branstetter. And then my website is God brandstetter.com.

Kyle Roed:

Awesome. We will have that on the show notes. I'm going to see if I can dig up the disrupt HR wrap and put that in the show. I'll see what I can do. But God it's just been a just an absolute joy to to get to meet you and just appreciate you spend some time with us here. Thank you for for writing the book. The book, again is HR by design. And she also wrote hire by design. Check it out available where books are sold. Thank you, Jody, have a great rest of the day.

Jodi Brandstetter:

Thank you. So Not so much in free your mind, free your mind

Kyle Roed:

and the rest will follow you the rest of the song. Thanks. All right, that does it for the rebel HR podcast. Big thank you to our guests. Follow us on Facebook at rebel HR podcast, Twitter at rebel HR guy or see our website at rebel human resources.com. The views and opinions expressed by rebel HR podcast are those the authors and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any of the organizations that we represent. No animals were harmed during the filming of this podcast. Maybe

(Cont.) RHR 119: HR By Design with Jodi Brandstetter