Rebel Human Resources Podcast

Bonus Episode: HR Disruptors with Jan Barlow

September 16, 2022 Kyle Roed, The HR Guy Season 3 Episode 134
Rebel Human Resources Podcast
Bonus Episode: HR Disruptors with Jan Barlow
Show Notes Transcript

About Jan:

When it comes to an unexpected career transition, I understand exactly what it feels like. During an unsuccessful merger and acquisition process, I went from being at the top of my game as an industry leader, hired for my strengths to seeing my position change when management changed within 2 months. I was forced into a new position that didn't fit me or my skill set and ended up jeopardizing my health, and the newly organized department collapsed after 9 months.

This experience inspired me to launch the non-profit, Better Job Fit. I'm now a consultant, mentor and coach to companies and individuals, collaborating to identify and leverage the strengths of their teams to increase individual performance and workplace satisfaction. I am recognized for my expertise in global business development, customized strategic sales training, and advancing companies through the 10 Stages of Corporate Growth, (From Start-up to Prime). 

My clients include companies, executives, entrepreneurs and individuals, all seeking to enhance their individual or employees' productivity and performance. I assess, create and implement customized performance plans based specifically on their strengths, circumstances and goals.

As a powerful teacher, consultant and author, I am committed to creating positive company cultures and seamless teams that bring increased profit to any organization. My passion for creating dynamic change influenced Better Job Fit's social justice program, supporting the underserved populations of Veterans and Foster Care Alumni with internships and permanent job placements.

https://hrdisrupterssummit.zohobackstage.com/HRDisruptersSummit2022

 HR Disrupters Summit YouTube Channel:  https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCt-KSLuW11Uyaj651kWT3Jw 

Jan Barlow: www.linkedin.com/in/janbarlow

Email:  jbarlow@betterjobfit.org

Rebel HR is a podcast for HR professionals and leaders of people who are ready to make some disruption in the world of work.

We'll be discussing topics that are disruptive to the world of work and talk about new and different ways to approach solving those problems.

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Jan Barlow:

Human beings are naturally drawn to grow and expand, right? So when we're not doing that, proactively or unconsciously, we're not happy. So although Change is hard, like you said, I mean you you have to get outside your comfort zone credit to you for noticing that that's how you grow and expand.

Kyle Roed:

This is the rebel HR Podcast, the podcast where we talk to HR innovators about all things people leadership. If you're looking for places to find about new ways to think about the world of work, this is the podcast for you. Please subscribe my favorite podcast listening platform today. And leave us a review. Rebel on HR rebels. Welcome back rebel HR listeners to a special Friday episode release. Really excited to introduce you all to Jan Barlow, who is a kindred HR spirit. She is a thought disrupter, a catalyst and facilitator of change. She founded the 501 C three better job fit and we are so excited to have her with us today. Welcome, Jen.

Jan Barlow:

Thank you. It's great to be here. Fellow disruptor.

Kyle Roed:

disruptors unite. Also like to welcome Molly who has been traveling all over the country and is joining us today. Welcome, Molly.

Molly Burdess:

Thank you kya.

Kyle Roed:

So before we get into the conversation, because there's so many great things we're going to talk about, I'd like Jan, to give you an opportunity to help our listeners understand a little bit about your background.

Jan Barlow:

Thank you kind of, you know, I started my career in working for a global pharmaceutical company and literally created my own job there. Hi to my career was hired by our our biggest competitor and set up for success. Two months later, got a new manager went south real quick, how can you be hired for your strengths, and then all of a sudden, two months later, it be totally different. So it was such a tremendous expat experience that I had lost my hair. I mean, my hair fell out, my palm started to appeal, I was sleeping for 12 hours, it affected me physically the stress of it. And that's when I just said, you know, life's too short. And afterwards, I just said I wanted to for a life's work, or really what I was called to do was to start better job fit, because my goal was to put people in positions of strength. Since companies weren't doing it, managers weren't doing it, it's going to be up to individuals to have that self mastery, to make sure that they do everything they can do to not put themselves in harm's way, right. And so that's really how I started better job fit. And that was back in 2009. And we've grown the brand to three other brands for better job fit. And here we are today.

Kyle Roed:

I love it. So for those that aren't familiar, what is better job fit, what is the kind of the mission of the organization.

Jan Barlow:

So the mission really is with all of our brands is to reimagine work. So when we looked at all of each of our individual brands in has to all do about individuals and that workplace integration and weaving, whether it's you know, creating your own career, that's our reading your next it's not about finding a job. It's about creating your next bright, new, exciting, extraordinary, extraordinary transition, behavior, diversity. That's our equity and inclusion brand. We all talk about the external elements of diversity, what's different physically, you know, race, religion, sex, but really how we perceive others is based on our behaviors. And then we we really took all three of those brands, and we needed a platform and a space to bring people together to talk about a lot of different things. And that's where the HR disrupter saw, amen. So it's really all of our brands is about reimagine work.

Kyle Roed:

I love that. And I think, you know, it's, the other thing I'll say is this is not like, this isn't like something that you're like, last year, you know, there's this trend that we should you know, that that Oh, wow. You mean people actually want to have purpose at work and, you know, like, they want to have work in life integration. And, you know, it's like, you've been doing this for a long time. And and, you know, you you spotted this need many years ago, as you look at the, the kind of the world of work and specifically in the context of Human Resources has much changed over the last few years, or are we still kind of in the same rut that we've been in? When you started your essay?

Jan Barlow:

It's still the same way and fast forward from 2008 turn nine when we well, really 2009 when we officially launched better job fit Harvard Business Review in 2016. The July August issue, the front cover said it's time to blow up HR and create something new. I mean that I'm not cutting edge, right? I mean, and 20 2016 was interesting, because that's what a Consumer Reports put out a cover that said, my college degree bankrupted me. So that's why in 2020, when I said, Okay, one, when we look at topics, I'm like, we number one topic, or at least one of the top two or three is bridging the gap between academia and the workforce. Right. And so this hasn't been new news. But what I think it comes down to we live in a quantum science world, where everything I mean, when you think about it, we have everything we want, quickly, overnight, you know, at at our disposal, right, and disposal, whatever we want. And but when it comes to three dimension of time, and process, there's a disconnect between the quantum science world that we live in, and the world of HR and work, right, that's, that's a totally like, a different time war. No.

Kyle Roed:

Absolutely. I think it's really interesting that the conversation is essentially the same. And that, you know, people people are looking for more, and people are questioning why we do things the way that we do. So as you look at HR as a, as a profession, and, and as you look at some of the work that you've done over the years, you know, what are some call outs where you see, maybe these are the areas that we really need to change if we are going to, to level up and, and evolve with the evolving world.

Jan Barlow:

I think, from an industry standpoint, you know, not only just, I think from the HR industry, we have to start looking at bringing different ideas together. But the problem is, when you just stay within your own silo industry, you don't get any outside information, right? Or feedback. So you keep on regurgitating the same stale water that, you know, you're not doing anything different, right, you're not getting a 360 view of your industry, or really what the needs are. And I think that's, that's in every industry. And that's why when we created the summit, it's about a 316. We're bringing people from all industries and all positions around the same topics that, that we're dealing with bridging the gap between academia and the workforce, right? I mean, HR needs to get outside there, and every industry needs to look outside their own bubble, right?

Molly Burdess:

Yeah, one of the best things I've ever done in my career is reaching out touring, educating myself, just learning from other people, other industries, other companies. I've learned so much from that. What other ways can we do that? Or have you seen HR professional, get outside?

Jan Barlow:

That's what I'm saying they're not doing it. And that's why when all these years all my HR peeps, because I've been part of the second largest Scherl organization in the US is here in Dallas, and kept on seeing recycling, you know, you're you're getting the same people. Really the same viewpoint from within the industry, you're not really getting viewpoints from outside the industry. So that's really why we have the summit is to bring these different organizations or mean industries together and outside positions, to start having these open conversations. But solving some you know issues and challenges doing something different. And to your point, Molly You you at proactively went out to seek out different people and different from different viewpoints. HR doesn't do that, in a lot of industries don't

Molly Burdess:

well, before you give me too much credit. Usually when I do that, it's because I find myself getting stagnant and what I'm doing how I'm thinking, and it's just something that I'd have to recognize. I'm like, Oh God, I have to get out of the cycle otherwise, that I owe slightly No. HR is never going to level up. I am never going to level up my organization. And I hope there's more like me that recognize when they get stuck I've met and want to do something about it?

Jan Barlow:

Well, it is to your credit, my friend, because I know who we attract to any of our better job fit brands, we focus on the consciously Advanced Individual, meaning they're going beyond their comfort zone, and they want to grow. And that's where I truly believe human beings are naturally drawn to grow and expand, right. So when we're not doing that, proactively or unconsciously, it we're not happy. So, although Change is hard, like you said, I mean, you you have to get outside your comfort zone, credit to you for noticing that that's how you grow and expand

Molly Burdess:

your fleet. Thank you.

Kyle Roed:

Molly's too humble to take any

Molly Burdess:

credit, kudos to you.

Kyle Roed:

I think it's a really, it's a really important point. And I think it's a really appropriate challenge and call to action for people in our profession. And, you know, unfortunately, I've observed it as well. You know, there was a point earlier, in my career many years ago, where I was questioning whether this was the right field for me, because I did feel like, we were supposed to just stay in our box, you know, make sure you check the box on compliance, do this audit here, do this thing there, you know, make, make sure that you take all humanity out of the workplace and follow that process as a black and white operator within a big complex, right. And I just, I hated that, you know, I felt like this is a disservice to, to the organization. And it's also for me, it's like, the most boring thing I could do I have no interest in being like a, like a robotic HR person, in this massive machine. So. So for those of us that have that mindset, or maybe even questioning, am I in the right organization? Am I in the right job? Am I even in the right industry? What recommendations would you have for us to, to grow? And, and really, you know, kind of push ourselves to to be better.

Jan Barlow:

So, I guess I want to clarify the question to stay in the HR industry, how to grow yourself within that industry and what its limitations are right now.

Kyle Roed:

Exactly, yeah.

Jan Barlow:

What I have seen work is I get a lot of feedback from HR, official HR professionals, right, such as you that say that when they go to conferences, they get more out of the individual. meeting others individually and going out for coffee or or having those side chats, right. So that's the first and foremost is to meet with other like mindedness, you know, individuals in your industry, but more so bring that third party that's outside of your industry. That's really what I would suggest. Because it's not until you get outside your industry that you really got to grow. Right and get outside your silo?

Molly Burdess:

Yeah, even I mean, I've found value even not even getting outside my industry. But you know, if somebody's not ready to do that a little bit scared, you can even start within your within your own business. So for example, go learn your marketing department go pick their brain go. Other departments even right within your, your organization, your four walls, that that's a great starting point as well.

Jan Barlow:

No. And you know what, it's interesting, you brought that up, Molly, about the marketing, because right now we're doing a project with the public relations Association, prsa, Public Relations Society of America. And we're bringing together we're going to organize an event, bringing together communications professionals, and HR professionals, because when you when you think about, again, that behave just like marketing, behavior, Industry Profiles are totally opposite. But what we see is when communications and HR I mean, they're one in the same, I mean, they have to be in alignment, and they're not right now. And so we want to facilitate an event and an experience to pull these two industries together and start creating more relationships around that. And I think that having having those that exposure to other, you know, thoughts from both ends of the spectrum, I think we're going to be able to facilitate some good relationships. They're right, that will impact the industry overall. So we're, we're trying to facilitate those relationships or create those relationships to now start affecting HR in an organic way.

Molly Burdess:

Oh, yeah, maybe if we start working with communicate, and we can get our employees who read our emails in our newsletter?

Jan Barlow:

That's exactly right. Right.

Kyle Roed:

Last email. Yeah, I've been there. Yeah, I think it's so powerful. It's such a great call out Jan. And, you know, the other thing is, it's like, it's not overly complex, right? It's like, you know, you could put, you could put together all these like, fancy, like, flowcharts, and tools and all these things that HR should be doing. But, you know, at the end of the day, it's about connection with people, people that have a different perspective that have a different skill set. I mean, isn't that really what HR supposed to be doing? Anyways? Like building a team like that? Like, am I missing something? I feel? Sorry? I'm missing something.

Jan Barlow:

No, that's what I'm saying that it's, it's so we get so basic about it, we're going okay, is this really rocket science people? I mean, it's not called Human Resources. I remember a time when it was it was branded as human relations. That's what the that's what it used to be called, though, it me when I first started to work in the 80s. Like in Washington, DC, I remember the sign outside the door said human relations. Where did we? Where did we get into this now flipping human capital? Courses? I mean, those words are so not like, lose that language. I mean, let's start using some high vibrational words instead of, you know, calling people resources and, and human capital. I mean, we're not selling widgets here, people. Yeah, no,

Kyle Roed:

absolutely. You we talked about this, John, and in a recent conversation, and I think it's a really powerful comment. And it's something I don't want to skip over. Because, you know, even the name implies that we are we are here to consume something, right? A resource is something that is consumed in some way, shape, or form, like, What a weird way to think about people. First of all, and and, and second of all, it doesn't even really describe what we what we do. So no,

Jan Barlow:

does it? I mean, we're talking about rebranding an entire industry, if that's what's necessary, I mean, from I know, that sounds ridiculous. But when you think of a brand, an industry as a brand, new what, why it's no different than a product or a service, this industry really needs a facelift from from the top down, because human being like, employees that I don't know about what your experience has been, because you're in, you're on the other side of HR. But as far as people don't want to go to HR, they don't feel safe to go into HR, because they they are concerned that something is going to be used against them. Right? I mean, that's why this whole industry needs a facelift. Like we need to rebrand human relations. I mean, it's, it's, it really would be a great little project.

Molly Burdess:

Yeah, it's so important. And I think but I think it's something we can all do within our own poor walls and within our own organization, by being intentional by getting out of our office and filthy mode, connections and relationships, working with leaders working with frontline Associates, and just seeing visible really,

Jan Barlow:

you know, you sit you make a great point, Mara, because a lot of HR people that's foreign to them, like, why would I go and, and take a manager out of every department and go to lunch with them every month? Like why would I do that? Like, are you kidding me? Why wouldn't you? Right, they're not put in to your point. We need to get out. So in our own companies, and start creating relationships with our different departments to find out what their needs are. People only come to you know, those departments only come to you when they have a problem, or when they need somebody, like when they need to hire somebody, you got to create relationship and be proactive first, before people then can trust you to bring their problems or to share, maybe, you know, their feedback and be a little bit more open. But you have to create relationship and that takes being proactive.

Kyle Roed:

Absolutely, yeah. I think it's, it's, it's so funny, and I'm just sitting here like, you know, I'm getting getting wound up a little bit because it's like, I know we're talking about like, well, you know, the the job titles right? And then in the back of my mind, I'm like, Well gee, if only HR had some control over job titling, you know that Boy, that would really be something. Right. You know, it's like, like, we do have some control here, we have some agency, and all of these things. And then, you know, I do think, you know, to go back to the point you just made Jan, I think it's critical. You know, and there's this whole, you know, everybody I talked to, it seems like and human resources complains about having a seat at the table or having the, you know, kind of the, the political capital within their, you know, within their organization. At the end of the day I, again, I think we overcomplicated. What it is, is, if people see value in you, and your perspective and the work that you do, and the value that you provide to the organization, they're gonna ask you to be there. It's as simple as that. And the way that you do that, is by understanding the challenges, the barriers to success, what your team needs, and, and how their business operates. Like, you have to be a generalist beyond human resources, you have to be a business. Yes, sessional, or an organizational professional within your organization, not just human resources.

Molly Burdess:

And in my mind, that doesn't even mean you have to have all the answers or all the solutions. But in HR, I love HR, because you're like, in the middle of all these different departments. And you can hear it as that connector. So if one department is having a challenge, you say, Oh, I know another department that was working, that can work really well with you. And it's just connecting those and being that really that center.

Jan Barlow:

You know, but to your point, Molly, you're the one that's initiating that. Yeah. Okay. And that's where, you know, when we talk about agency, Kyle, you know, you got to own your position in HR. Okay. So it, you can't whine about not having a seat at the table. To your point, if you're not bringing value. And to bring value, you have to go outside of your department to talk to other people so that he see your value, right? Just because you've got you're in HR doesn't, like how do you, you got to get people to know You To Know your value to see it right to hear your opinion. But you have to first peer enough to want to get out and learn more about others and to see how you can serve others in HR, in your capacity. Right? There's a victim mindset, you know, is oh, we want to sit at the table. Okay, well, what are you doing? You know, what's your what power? Are you using your own power to get that? If you're just sitting there waiting for somebody to acknowledge you, guess what, and dogs not going to hunt? I'm sorry. But that's that's you got to get outside yourself instead of just playing a victim about it.

Kyle Roed:

Hey, man, would you reach?

Molly Burdess:

You know, we've kind of beaten by Do you want to go back? And I hate to go backwards because we are having an awesome conversation. But you've said this twice now talked about bridging the gap between academics and the workforce. And I think that's so important. I mean, I think of how many times I've heard HR people talk about, oh, people are missing soft skills, or, you know, I've been at a job fair, and I meet this business management degree. And I'm like, Well, what do you want to do? Well, I want to be a manager. Okay, what industry? What do you why do you want to do that? And they just have no idea. Right? So what advice do you have for HR individuals? Like how can we make an impact on that? Eliminate that barrier.

Jan Barlow:

It's about part creating partnerships. I know that we worked with UT Dallas and University of Phoenix back in 2018, on a project we surveyed alumni, 65% of alumni said that they were not in a job that related to their degree. When that and that's not new news. That's not like it's been the last 10 years. I mean, this has been going on but but when it comes down to it, so we got both Akademia we got a VP of Toyota and StateFarm, with Chancellor's and presidents of universities to come together. And because they weren't, they weren't believing us, academia and you know, in the separate bubbles, they weren't thinking, these stats were credible. We got them all in one room. And academia really was shocked because the the major employers said it takes us a year to after we hire somebody to get them up and running to where they're actually working for us. Right. They're rapidly producing. And so they said the top three things that they expect from a graduate experience, executive presence and leadership skills. Well, they don't teach that in an academic shift. And so when the fort when one of the Chancellor's said, Well, what about a degree? The response was Mike drop, anybody can get a degree. So that's why when we talk about the summit, we're bringing entities like Career Technical educators from high schools, we're bringing career development directors from colleges, we're bringing HR professionals from companies, right, bringing them together to say, Okay, let's get it all in one room, let's talk about what, what type of partnership or relationship can we put together that has a program that can bridge this gap? Nobody does that. You know, you got career development, people going to Subway, you know, Jimmy, John's, and all these places, and they come back and and they think that's career development. You know, getting working with Jimmy John's or subway to, you know, hire people and bringing that and posting it on a job board for their alumna. Like what is like, what is that? I mean, that, that, see, that's what I'm saying, like, but when you have to do it from behind the scenes, unfortunately, because that means doing something different. Right? Yeah. Kinship, it's creating relationship, but in a different way.

Molly Burdess:

Absolutely. So here in Iowa, we actually have come to college of the Hab Advisory Board, where you're talking just like that, folks, people from the profession can come in and potentially imbibe on what they're seeing, or what they're seeing that missing in these, these schools graduate. That's another really good opportunity, I think that HR professionals can get involved in to make a difference.

Jan Barlow:

So what like, you know, when What's interesting, though, is the schools aren't changing their curriculum. So it really unless you have change in each of those bubbles. It doesn't matter what the HR goes to a company. I mean, you know, goes to a has an advisory board for the students. Because it's the schools and their curriculum. That's the two biggest entities, the schools, and the companies are not getting together, and the schools are not changing their format for curriculum. Yep. Yeah, I mean, that's, that's the basic foundation. So you can have advisory boards until the cows come home. But until schools start producing different curriculum, to prepare the students, companies are not going to get what they need.

Molly Burdess:

Yeah, Furbies advisory boards are just what you're talking about. They are this school, and essentially, business professionals connect seen to improve the curriculum. And I'm not sure if every school had that, but if not, what a great opportunity to try to create change within that pool within that curriculum. But somebody's got to take the initiative, right, without just sit back and blame other people for for the problem.

Jan Barlow:

Yeah, that's exactly right. And you know, another thing Akademia doesn't bring in enough business people, like they just want somebody with a PhD, or whatever. And it's like, who's never been in business. So, again, you're teaching theory that you have no, you know, no experience to share. It's there, they're keeping that in a bubble. So unless you're bringing people who are, who have been successful, or who have been in that experience of that business, or industry, you're really not providing the level of experience or expertise or knowledge or wisdom to these students. That's a huge thing. So there are foundational issues or challenges that really, you know, need to change that, I don't know if epidemic is ready for.

Kyle Roed:

I think some are right. But I think going back to your point, Jan, it's finding it's like people like us that want to make change, and disrupt and have, you know, observed where the change needs to be made. And then it's finding those similar minded people within academia that have the, you know, the, the will, to do some of these things, and I do you know, to, to give a little bit of a, you know, backup to, because I got a lot of friends in academia, you know, I do think, I do think that there are there are some really, you know, well intentioned programs out there. I do think that that, that people are starting to demand this, certainly the, you know, some of the groundswell of people questioning the value of a college degree, versus, you know, maybe a more specialized degree I think, I think changes coming but we need to step up and help articulate that change in my opinion. You know, we're we are the ones on the frontlines hiring these individuals and if they don't have the skills that we need And then we need to advocate to change, you know how we're developing it. But I do go back to 14 together. Yeah, exactly, exactly. We got to have the conversation and be willing to have the conversation and, and I think going back to kind of where we started this conversation, you know that nothing is it's nothing is simple. You know, this, this is a, this is not a binary world. And you know, you can't treat career development or education or training or experience as a binary thing. It's like this big mess of spaghetti on a plate. That's what everybody's career looks like, you know, nobody has this career ladder. It's a myth.

Jan Barlow:

You don't see that's exactly to your point. Kyle, there's an unexpected, I mean, it's, it's not realistic, like people just so why do we keep on preparing in in following this path? And expectation? Oh, okay. So, you know, when you, you know, go into college, you got to pick your, your, you know, for the rest of your life, why are we even doing it in this pattern that doesn't even is not reality. That's, that's, that's another foundational, I mean, we got schools, high schools and junior high, junior high, they are asking, and expecting students in junior high, when the front part of your brain has not been fully developed. To ask and claim what you want to be when you grow up.

Kyle Roed:

You either wanted to be a paleontologist, a cop, or, or, or Rockstar and none of those things happen. Unfortunately. Sorry. You're still around my friends. Rockstar have a microphone in front of me. But that's Yeah.

Molly Burdess:

Kinda fulfilling that dream with your your cover photo on the podcast?

Jan Barlow:

Yeah. In different ways. Okay, we didn't tie what you manifested. I can tell you

Kyle Roed:

that. I put it out there in the universe.

Jan Barlow:

way at the beginning of each show file. Yeah.

Kyle Roed:

No. Okay, yeah, I will leave that to the professionals. Someday, Molly after after enough beers, maybe. Okay. But no, I think it's, you know, it's it's a, it's just been an absolutely wonderful conversation. I know, Jay, and that you are going to continue this conversation with your, you know, with your upcoming conference. So I'm just gonna give you a warm pitch to tell us more about this, this conference and give us some details.

Jan Barlow:

Thank you, Kyle. It's going to be held here in Dallas, October 5 through seventh. And it's two and a half days. We have Haley Taylor Schlitz, the youngest American black American to graduate from law school. So she is our academic disrupter. She graduated from SMU law school at age 19. Just this last May. So we are just excited to have her as our guest this year. We are bringing epidemia we are bringing you know HR professionals, we're bringing real estate relocation companies equity and inclusion. So we're really pulling from vast majority C suite map vast majority of different industries to come together under one roof. And really start talking about and create relationships around these topics, and start really addressing with our solution sessions, we're going to have labs, and we're going to have beta projects afterwards. So it's taking those theories that we talked about in the lab, and then implementing them and gonna be finishing up in February with so white papers from that are going to be published from the beta project. So it's a process we have virtual we have in person and then we'll have our beta project so really excited to be able to bring people together and facilitate change.

Kyle Roed:

Absolutely. And where can they go to find out more about the conference and purchasing you

Jan Barlow:

can go to HR disruptors summit and that's HR di SRUP, t e r s summit su m m i t.com.

Kyle Roed:

Awesome. We'll have that link in the show notes as well. So you can open up your podcast player, click and check it out. And and really appreciate it. With that being said, I can't wait to hear the responses to the rebel HR flash round. So we're gonna we're gonna shift gears and go to the flash round. Are you ready? Yep. All right. Question number one, where does HR need to rebel?

Jan Barlow:

Think differently because that's so that's so against their industry.

Kyle Roed:

Absolutely. Human Relations, right human relations. That's

Jan Barlow:

exactly right. Let's get back to that.

Kyle Roed:

I love it. Question number two, who should we be listening to

Jan Barlow:

I got to tell you, Einstein, any, you know, any of our, you know, great scientists, you know, look at their life and look at their lesson especially Einstein. Pablo Picasso said, you know, anything that can be imagined is real. I know this is not woowoo we're just really trying to, you know, take this knowledge and wisdom that's been here forever. From our, you know, those great leaders think differently. And that's exactly what they've done. What they did.

Kyle Roed:

Absolutely expand your horizons. All right, last question. How can our listeners connect with you

Jan Barlow:

can reach me on connect with me on LinkedIn, Jane, or I think Sandra Jan Barlow. You can also email me Jay Barlow, at better job fit dot o RG and contact me directly. We'd love to speak to anybody.

Kyle Roed:

Absolutely. And we'll again we'll have that in the show notes. Jan, I just want to thank you again. It's just It's been wonderful to connect with you and get to know you here over the last few weeks. And just really appreciate you spending some time with us here. Here today.

Jan Barlow:

My friends, I tell you what, I just really so value our connection. Both you and Molly just it's just so great to be called to come together and for a higher purpose. And really, thank you for your time and this opportunity.

Kyle Roed:

I feel the same way chan thanks. Me too. All right, that does it for the rebel HR podcast. Big thank you to our guests. Follow us on Facebook at rebel HR podcast, Twitter at rebel HR guy, or see our website at rebel human resources.com. The views and opinions expressed by rebel HR podcast are those the authors and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any of the organizations that we represent. No animals were harmed during the filming of this podcast. Maybe