RHR 174: Embrace the Power of You with Tricia Montalvo Timm

Kyle Roed: 0:02

This is the rebel HR Podcast, the podcast about all things innovation in the people space. I'm Kyle ROED. Let's start the show. Welcome back rebel HR listeners extremely excited for this week's show. With us. We have Trisha Montalvo Tim, she is the author of the book that is available now, where books are sold, embrace the embrace the power of you, owning your identity at work. Trisha, welcome to the show. Hi, Kyle,

Tricia Montalvo Timm: 0:34

thanks for having me.

Kyle Roed: 0:36

Well, we are extremely excited to have you on the show. And I think today's topic is a really, really important one and a timely one for us HR professionals to hear. So the first question that I have for you, as I have for all of the authors, on my show is what motivated you to put in the time energy, and in some cases heartburn to write a book about owning your identity at work.

Tricia Montalvo Timm: 1:01

That's such a great question. And I like how you said heartburn because my book, not only for all authors, an incredible amount of time and effort, but in my book is very vulnerable and tell a lot about my personal story. So there was a lot of unpacking and healing. And as my developmental editor said, the first job was the healing draft. So let's see, let me tell you a little bit about myself professionally and personally, professionally. I've been working in high tech for over 25 years, as a general counsel, outside lawyer working with large big companies, to multinational companies, to small startups and everything in between. But on the personal side, I am the daughter of two immigrants. My mother is from El Salvador and my father is from Ecuador. And they grew up in Los Angeles, California, and they wanted like many immigrants, the American Dream for a family and at an early age they moved out of the city into the suburbs and all of a sudden found myself as the only in my community I was the you know only are one of the few Latino families in a predominantly white community. And you know, they have suffered from from discrimination themselves and wanted a different life for me and they encouraged me out of you know, LOD to downplay, downplay where we came from downplay, and to assimilate and belong. And that was really that generation. You know, goal was to assimilate. And so I did, and I did that through school, law school and my career. And so the book is really about that journey and the cost of assimilation, because what happens is, when you hide or downplay any part of yourself, whether it's your, your race, your religion, sexual orientation, learning disability, mental health conditions, all of these things that we don't want others to know about, we're not bringing a really critical piece of who we are to the workplace. And that's not only physically and emotionally exhausting for the person who's hiding. But it's also a sad consequence for our workplaces, because we need all their lived experiences in the workplace. So so the book is really my way of telling my storage normalize, what that might feel like for people and provide strategies to get on the other side of that journey.

Kyle Roed: 3:37

Absolutely, and, you know, I think it's, it's, it's fascinating to hear, you know, that that context, and I think it's important for many of us to hear, especially those of us that, you know, don't have that that lived experience and, you know, don't have that context. You know, I think it's been also been interesting to see in the workplace, there's been a little bit of a tidal wave of employers being asked to embrace the differences that their teams have and to and to allow people to bring their you know, their authentic selves to work it in your experience and in your context as you as you look at some of the this, this changing expectation as it relates to our workplaces. Is it is it happening fast enough? Or are there other things that we need to be thinking about and other other tactics that we need to really focus on in human resources to really embrace this and allow people to truly be themselves in the workplace?

Tricia Montalvo Timm: 4:51

I don't think it's happening fast enough. And that's the challenge with di work you know, and I, my last job as head of di and I'm There's always a group of people that said, we're doing things too fast. And another group of people are saying, we're doing things to flow. And you know, and we moved somewhere in the middle. But I, you know, what I think is, you know, companies were, there was a lot of pressure to diversify the workplace. And so there have been a lot of efforts around that from corporations to increase diversity. But the challenge is, when you then bring in diverse employees into the workplace, how are they going to feel there, and that's where the inclusivity and belonging piece is so important. And, you know, one of the benefits I have of Ken sitting in both spaces of sort of the C suite space or dominant space, and also the space of people of color, women of color, is when I'm in the spaces of people of color, you know, they are burned out there, you know, it is incredibly hard to try to fit in and try to, you know, bring their authentic self to the workplace. And so they are trying to do a lot of their work to try to survive in the environment with very few playbooks are meant or or, you know, all of the tools needed to succeed. And there's not that same urgency, I would say, at leadership, from trying to create that inclusive workplace. Really, the pressure is just to diversify. And so I think where I think there's an urgency is, how do we retain our very talented, diverse workforce? Because you see, a, you know, a lot of people deciding to leave workplaces that don't create that environment?

Kyle Roed: 6:52

Absolutely. You know, and I think it's interesting to, to reflect on that, because, and I think many, many HR professionals would agree that much of the work that we have done, has been fairly reactive, and it's been, you know, hey, you know, even down to the numbers we track, like, you know, what is the percent of diverse candidates that we hire? Right? It's, I think it's a little bit more rare to see an organization that says, what is diversity statistics in our turnover? Metrics? Right. Yeah. And, and truly on answering the honest question, why? Why are these individuals leaving? Yeah. And and is there a common thread? And is there truly a root cause? Because the reality is when you really start to unpack, you might not like the answers, right, that you get, right. And I think sometimes we have to confront those, those harsh truths.

Tricia Montalvo Timm: 7:56

And those statistics, I think, are really critical for companies during, you know, exit interviews, really asking those hard questions and reflecting and, and tracking that. And the health promotion, you know, how are we doing and promoting people? What what did that metric look like? So there's, there's a lot that can be tracked there, for sure.

Kyle Roed: 8:18

Absolutely. So I think, you know, from my perspective, this is something that that leaders own human resources owns, you know, there has to be some ownership in the leadership team and in the management team, and especially in human resources that, you know, this stuff matters, right. This is, this is really what matters. Yeah. As you reflect on the personal experience of somebody that is, you know, coming from a point of being, you know, being at the other in the room was was the terminology that you use before we hit record? What Why is it so important for every individual to truly be able to own their identity at work?

Tricia Montalvo Timm: 9:03

A couple of different reasons. One is, you know, studies show that people who bring their authentic selves to the workplace are going to be happier, they're going to be, you know, thriving in their professions, and you're going to retain your employees. So, I think that is important, just in terms of retaining and also having fulfilling careers. But also, I think, what's also important is our you know, our society is a diverse, we are all become from different lived experiences. And if we are asking our employees to come in and not bring their authentic selves to work or not create spaces that that are inclusive, then you're lacking that perspective, that unique perspective in designing and marketing different product to people, you see the lack of diversity in media, you see it in lack of product design, you'd see it and lack of, you know, when you do search term, for example, on Google, and now look at AI, you know, what is AI going to be doing? And how, what, what are they? What is that technology grabbing, that's going to then produce the next, you know, information. So, you know, I think, for example, and me, I'm a Latina, I know that the Latino market is the fastest growing demographic market in the country, I think there's$2.8 trillion dollars of buying power. And I think the GDP of Latino community is I want to fit support, or if there was on GDP basis, the fourth or fifth largest in the world, yet, we're not creating or designing products to address that market. And part of it is because we just don't have any Latino them in leadership, there have only been two female Latina CEOs, we are less than 2% in the boardroom, less than 1% on a PC. And so that lack of voice to provide the ideas and innovation that can produce actually, you know, result for company is lacking. And so, I think it's important that we encourage all, you know, people from all different perspectives, to to be comfortable voicing their ideas, voicing who they are bringing us perspective to we can address all, you know, all communities.

Kyle Roed: 11:38

Absolutely. Yeah, you know, I think it's, first of all, it's started only to Latinos CEOs,

Tricia Montalvo Timm: 11:48

fortune 500 company fortune 500. Okay. Yeah, that's, that's shocking. Yeah, it is shocking. Yeah. You hear this? And if you think, you know, the statistics are crazy. And I do, I'm doing some now venture unboxing and collecting at entrepreneurs, the, the amount of capital or the amount of capital, they're receiving 0.2% of venture capital money goes to Latino entrepreneurs, and they're getting zero funding. So it's just, yeah, I mean, they're their statistics are shocking. So Wow. Yeah.

Kyle Roed: 12:27

You know, I think it's, it's important to be honest with ourselves about that, right? Because they're there. That's a problem. Right. You know, I think the other thing that, that I think is really important. First of all, I think the business case for for, you know, authenticity, diversity, equity, inclusion and belonging, yeah, I mean, if you just Google it, you can find, there's, there's so many validated studies, that it's just good, good business. But at the end of the day, it's also just the right thing to do. Right? And so it's like, you know, there's very few things in this world where you're like, Well, this is a, this is a really good money making opportunity. Oh, by the way, it's the decent and right thing to do as a society. So I kind of I struggle with individuals that maybe, you know, don't understand why we should do this, you know, on a broader level. It so what's your perspective on that? I mean, what, why are we in 2023, still struggling with such an under representation in in senior leadership position.

Tricia Montalvo Timm: 13:33

And a number of different reasons, I think that there's this concept of a pie. And that, you know, we're afraid that our slice of the pie will get smaller if we give more slices of the pie to others. And I think that changing that mindset to that there is enough pie for everybody, that we can all succeed together. And in fact, we do better when we all succeed together. So I think there's just this scarcity mindset. That is the challenge. When you say why, you know, why don't people just not understanding this is just a great thing. And I think it's because there's a scarcity of there's, if I give over here, it's going to take away from me and so I think we need to change that mindset, in terms of getting into leadership. I mean, I think it's just a it's a very systematic challenge that starts from you know, grade school, you know, and I think, you know, the images and and expectations we have for our kid, as they progress through school, the challenges that, you know, many people of color, faith in society, and the lack of sponsorship and mentorship, you know, when when there's only two female led BNF CEOs, where are the emerging Latina leaders going to get their advice from you know, there's a We have to encourage others to support and mentor people that are different from them so that our people of color have mentors and sponsors, because there's a lot that happens organically, and I've seen it throughout my career, you know, when I was going up through the ranks, it was so hard for me because I found, you know, my, my male colleagues were playing golf, and, you know, having the happy hours that I wasn't having, and, you know, that's where relationships build network build, and vice get blown, you know, flow down. And so I had to go figure it out on my own. And so there's just little things, very micro, you know, events that happen as you go through the corporate ladder, that make it very hard, if you, you know, don't have all of that support along the way. So I just do believe in a community of in the an erg than mentorship and all of the things really matter and supporting somebody.

Kyle Roed: 16:01

Absolutely. And, you know, I think, you know, from my standpoint, I hear that, and I and I, and you use the word that I, that I tend to use as well, which is, you know, it's systematic, right? There's a systemic issue with that statistic. Because if you look at the demographics of our population, that statistic should not be that statistic. Right. So, so the system is working, as it's designed to work. And the individuals that oversee that system, ie, HR professionals, and senior leaders need to confront that head on and change the system. Yeah. And it's, you know, and so it's one thing to talk about it. And, you know, I guarantee you that everybody listening this podcast, we're pretty cultivated, we've probably all agree with that statement. Right. And, and, you know, we're inherently here to kind of disrupt systems and make things, you know, better. Sometimes you have to break it to fix it again. Right. But But I think, I think one of the challenges and what's interesting with your book is that, that you really, you also need to be reflective enough with yourself. Before you can do that as well, right? Like, you need to need to put your oxygen mask on first, right? Yeah. So so as we are thinking about ourselves, as HR professionals, and we and we, and we are aligned, that we need to go out, and we need to help others embrace their own power and their own identity, what are some things that we can do personally, to make sure that we are prepared to be authentic to ourselves and to truly stay focused on our own individual vision and individual power?

Tricia Montalvo Timm: 17:45

Yeah, it is a journey. And in the end, like, Kyle, you said about self reflection, and I have lots of moments in the book where I asked very self, they're called self reflection moment. So that people can really consider how they're showing up in the workplace. And a lot, you know, I was unconsciously really downplaying who I was not only the Medina, but as a working mother, you know, when I started my career, 25 years ago, I was in an all male toxic environment and had no women in leadership. And, you know, it had nursed my baby in the parking garage, because I didn't have a place to, to nurse her. And I, and I downplayed being a mother. And so, you know, what are the things that we are doing? Because we think it's the only way to make it in the corporate environment? What are the things we're not bringing to the workplace? And, and, you know, and some of those things that we're doing, we kind of have to do, you know, based on the environment, that the only way it's gonna, you know, and you may be the full broad breadwinner, and may have to do that. But what are the things that you can change today, or we could plan to change in the next 12 month or, you know, next couple of years, so that you can bring more of yourself to the workplace and really unpacking? You know, what those things are and what you're trying to adapt to? And how can you change that? Because I'll tell you that when you get on the other side of that, and you let go of the fear, and you show up authentically, it's not only a gift to you, but it's a gift to everybody around you and I think you know, I think you asked the beginning of the podcast why write this book? It was more because i i Coming up coming up in the ranks cannot see a Latina leader and I told you the six they're just not any. And I didn't realize that by me not showing up visibly unabashedly visibly as a Latina, that what a difference that was to all the other Latinos that are trying to make it and see no role model. And so showing up authentically is a role you are A role model to the next generation who doesn't see anyone like you, no matter what, you know, again, it doesn't have to be raid, it can be any, you know, a normalizing mental health. That, you know, that is someone something though many people struggle with and and we need to be honored about that struggle. So yeah, I think self reflection is the key.

Kyle Roed: 20:22

I think that's it really well said and and you know, I, this is an audio only format. But when you started talking about assimilation and you mentioned this earlier, but it'd be nice to me it brought me right back to to corporate, you know, corporate one on one, like, right out right out of school, like, pretty quickly. In certain cultures, you figure out, you have to assimilate in order to move ahead. Right. Yeah, I mean, there are there are many organizations that are like that. And if you don't, if you haven't experienced that, it's still happening. It's probably just subconsciously, yeah. But, but but I think I would argue that our workplaces are, are seeing people fight against that now that that those cultures, where you have to you have to conform, to tend to not be embraced by by people. And the other argument that I would say is those cultures are risky, because you are missing out on an entirely extremely talented individuals, that that just won't work for you. And it's so like, I think it's such a terrible business strategy, as well as just not a great place to work. So, so yeah, for somebody that's in that culture right now, and I hope there's not many of our listeners that are there. But I guarantee you, there's still some things, there's still some some, some cultures and some subcultures within our organizations, where I guarantee that this, this still exists, what are some things that that you would recommend that leaders and human resources practitioners need to do to try to break this up and start to, to enact some of this culture change where, you know, this, this, this drive to assimilate becomes much more inclusive of individuals? Differences?

Tricia Montalvo Timm: 22:32

And I think what you said, there, Kyle is important where you said, people, qualified, highly talented people won't stay. And I think that, you know, from a business perspective, that's right on point, and I think a lot of things are happening right now, there's Generation V, I've got a daughter who's 20 years old, and let me tell you, they want to work, you know, in their own term. And if we're not ready for that, you know, we get to be behind the ball, we have the diverse workforce that is wanting to be seen. And so and then we have post COVID, right, if people got used to working remotely, and the flexibility, and so if we have leaders are not listening to all of that we're going to, I think those organizations are going to be behind and so inclusivity, I think is more important than ever been for so, you know, for HR leader, I think, you know, one, one important thing, I think there's, there's, you have chocolate, two different ways. One and two, you mentioned earlier, there's not just an HR responsibility, um, this is the, this is a leadership responsibility. And it really has to start at the top. And I think really finding ways to talk with our C suite executives about this as a responsibility for all C suite executives to bring into their organizations and make it a strategic priority is important because, you know, you know, just HR doing it by itself and not going to be able to move the needle and need have buy in from everybody. So working with leaders and trying to get that buy in, it's really critical. So that's at the top bottom that, you know, manager training. I mean, you know, the most most contact employees have is with their manager. And so you can be doing all the right things from a leadership perspective and trying to fit the culture but if your direct manager is not valuing your work if not making you feel seen isn't giving you the flexibility you need isn't giving you the space to process recent, you know, anti semitism that's happening and for example, like you're not feeling seen and heard from your manager, you're gonna you're gonna leave because that's, you know, that's the person that's making you feel good comfortable in your workplace. So I think manager training, you know, one of the specific strategies I include in my book is, you know, when you are having meetings, for example, and you have diverse perspectives in the room, don't make it the responsibility of that person to always be bringing up the, the unique point of view. Because that makes it very hard to be always the one raising your hand. So instead, as a manager, you could say, okay, when you see a conversation going, everyone's kind of going in one direction, challenging the group, and saying, Okay, what I want to hear the opposite of what we're all suggesting, what would what would that look like? How can we, let's think outside the box? Let's imagine if we did it differently? What does that look like that the opinion I want to hear, and now everyone is challenged with giving a diverse point of view, and that person is always having to raise their hand with a different perspective isn't alone in that?

Kyle Roed: 26:02

Yeah, I love that. And I think that's a, you know, that's something that for sauce is a great question to ask. Right. Like, yeah, that's a value added question that somebody should should be asking. And, and, you know, to that point, you know, honestly, I hadn't really even considered that context that, you know, if somebody who is, you know, has a different perspective, or have it has a different context, or different background, and they're always the ones sharing that perspective, that's got to be exhausting as

Tricia Montalvo Timm: 26:33

well. And then they'd get up, right. And that's what how, right, you know, you just like it, especially if that idea continuously being dismissed, then you're like, Okay, I'm just, I'm exhausted, and I'll be feeling my opinion of them being valued. And or the, you know, the organization isn't ready to hear it. So, yeah. That's a piece of creating inclusive environment.

Kyle Roed: 26:56

Absolutely, you know, I think, you know, our listeners, our community, we like challenging the status quo, you know, obvious for obvious reasons. That's why we're listening to something with revel in the title. But, but it's not always easy. And I think, I think it's also it can be challenging to kind of keep the, you know, keep that spirit, you know, especially when people when it's when it is always a point of conflict, or it's or, or falls on deaf ears. And so, so what, what tips do you have? And I know, there's a lot of tips in the book here. But what are some tips that we can use to kind of keep ourselves motivated and make sure that we don't fall into this, this negative self talk and kind of just kind of lose our steam on on driving some of these positive changes?

Tricia Montalvo Timm: 27:44

Yeah, you know, I think one is intention. And a lot of times, and I've seen that store organization, they're the desire for diversity and have the desire for inclusivity. But it doesn't happen without real specific intention. So how to be very intentional, creating very specific plans, not only annually quarterly monthly, to encourage and, and move the needle forward. And all of the various di objective, I think, you know, without intention, we're not going to really make progress. The second is getting comfortable, being uncomfortable. You know, I think that when you're part of a dominant group, or majority, um, you're not used to being uncomfortable. And that's one, you know, big thing that I've seen in different again, being in both spaces. You know, if you are part of a, if you are an other, you're very used to being uncomfortable, if you've always been under, you're the, you know, the only one in the room, you're the other, and so that not a, an unusual place to be, but some of these topics are challenging for people, it makes them uncomfortable, and they don't want to feel uncomfortable. So, I think, normalizing that, yeah, you know, maybe these conversation, and topics are uncomfortable, but they're important and moving through that feeling is really the way to make progress.

Kyle Roed: 29:16

Absolutely, and I think, you know, I think it can be, it can be challenging sometimes, but, but going back to, you know, really embracing the power of, you know, I think about like what's the consequence of us not doing that, right. Or if not, if not us then who should? Yeah, right. Like, like, like, let's, let's just be honest about you know, about where where some of this change can happen.

Tricia Montalvo Timm: 29:46

Yeah. Ally ship to your point, you know, Kyle is is Ally ship is huge, you know, as somebody who had I was talking about this awesome being sort of a relay race. If you're the one that is marginalized, in you are coming in and fighting that fight every day, eventually, you get to the point where your use can keep going, it's exhausting. So I encourage those people to pass the baton to the next person and take a break, because you can't keep going to pass the baton and the one off runs the next lap. But for allied, it, it's so critical because for those moments where the underrepresented or marginalized just can't, you know, bring in fight the vibe, the next time or or interrupt to that bias or that micro aggression that everyone kind of laughed at, or, you know, as allies, that is a huge amount of power. So it's not only embracing the power of you as the other, but embracing the power of ally ship, you have a huge opportunity to really make a difference by using your voice and your power and your privilege to interrupt by have to state the obvious to challenge and to be rumbled, as you say, it's really, really powerful.

Kyle Roed: 31:11

Absolutely, absolutely. And I think you know, that, that's one of those areas where, you know, I think like my call to action for all the HR professionals here, where where, where we can be allies, where we can take the baton in and support in whatever shape that takes, you know, that's, that's an area that that I passionately, passionately believe, should be a core function of, of what we do in our organizations. And we should hold others accountable to do that as well. And I think that's truly where, where some of the change happens. With that being said, Tricia, this has been an absolutely wonderful conversation, I'm going to encourage all of our listeners to go out. Again, the book is embracing embrace the power of you owning your identity at we're available, where books are sold, there's just just an amazing amount of wonderful content to help you and to help your organization thrive. So with that being said, We're gonna shift gears we're gonna go into the rebel HR flash round, are

Tricia Montalvo Timm: 32:17

you ready? Okay. Yes, I am. Thanks, guys. All right, no

Kyle Roed: 32:21

pressure a fresh. Alright, question number one, where does HR need to rebel?

Tricia Montalvo Timm: 32:27

Oh, HR can rebel by by saying the hard thing, right, I think we talked about ally shed, but oftentimes, it's, it's easy to go along with the crowd and not rock the boat. And I think stating the obvious and calling it out, I think, really, the HR function can really be a support organization. For many people that are struggling to belong.

Kyle Roed: 32:58

Absolutely couldn't agree more. I typically don't comment on the Flatiron questions. But I, I do want to make a comment here. You know, I think this this conversation has been really important. And for me, it's one of the more important conversations that we need to have, as HR professionals in an organization because the reality is, in some organizations, Human Resources actually being authentic, is rebelling. I agree. Yeah, it's so I would just tack on to that and be ah, be authentic, yourself, HR professionals like that. I think that can cause a very positive ripple in your organization.

Tricia Montalvo Timm: 33:38

Yeah, yeah. Hey, good point.

Kyle Roed: 33:40

If you want to figure out how to do that, go pick up the book. There you go. We'll have the link in the show notes. There you go. We'll tie it tie a bow on it. Alright, question number two, who should we be listening to? You know,

Tricia Montalvo Timm: 33:53

a lot of my journey started with Brene Brown, and I will say, you know, her TED talk on vulnerability really shifted the way I viewed myself, it gave me the courage to reflect on who I'm bringing into the world and, and the power of vulnerability of leaders. You know, I think it all ties in, you know, the core message of my book is belonging begins with self acceptance. And until you can really believe and who you are, you're not going to get that sense of belonging in the workplace. And that all begins with just kind of unpacking yourself and your journey. So I love I love all Brene Brown Books and podcasts, and I have looked into them all.

Kyle Roed: 34:43

I couldn't agree more. Yeah, there's that there. It's all wonderful work. I'm a little bit ashamed to admit I was like late to the party. Like I didn't start I didn't read the book until are some of the books until just a few years ago, so I could not agree more and very, very powerful and very powerful. powerful personal story, you know that shirt very authentically is Yeah, right. So great. Yeah, like a case study on why this is important.

Tricia Montalvo Timm: 35:08

Yeah, so yeah.

Kyle Roed: 35:10

All right, last question. So, absolutely wonderful conversation, I guarantee you that that our listeners are going to want to connect with you and learn more. So how can our listeners reach out and get their hands on the book in and connect with you?

Tricia Montalvo Timm: 35:23

Yeah, you can find me at Trisha kim.com TRIZIATI mn.com, and my website there, and I'm on LinkedIn and Instagram. And so you can you can find me there as well.

Kyle Roed: 35:38

Absolutely. We will have all that information in the show notes, put up your podcast player. And and I encourage you to get connected and check out the book Trisha. It's been an absolutely wonderful conversation. Thank you for investing the time and energy to put this this content out there and for spending a couple minutes with us today.

Tricia Montalvo Timm: 35:58

Thank you so much for having me. Thanks.

Kyle Roed: 36:02

All right. That does it for the rebel HR podcast. Big thank you to our guests. Follow us on Facebook at rebel HR podcast, Twitter at rebel HR guy, or see our website at rebel human resources.com. The views and opinions expressed by rebel HR podcast are those the authors and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any of the organizations that we represent. No animals were harmed during the filming of this podcast. Maybe