Rebel Podcast: Life and Work on Your Terms

Shaping Cultures Through Authenticity: An Unconventional Journey

January 10, 2024 Kyle Roed, The HR Guy Season 4 Episode 188
Rebel Podcast: Life and Work on Your Terms
Shaping Cultures Through Authenticity: An Unconventional Journey
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Show Notes Transcript Chapter Markers

Ever pondered the transformative power of authenticity in shaping corporate cultures? Get ready to be inspired as Alex Atwood, an entrepreneur, coach, and change-maker in the emerging field of psychedelics, unfolds his journey in our conversation. We explore unconventional career paths, self-growth, and the essence of leadership through the lens of self-awareness.

In the evolving landscape of corporate ethos, transparency and authenticity are no longer mere buzzwords; they are key defining pillars. Harnessing tools like the Predictive Index, we delve into setting intentional culture guidelines, with a keen eye on the potential pitfalls of miscommunication during this shift. Tune in as we dissect the need for establishing guardrails to ensure authenticity doesn't backfire, transforming workplaces into breeding grounds for negativity.

Our conversation takes a deeper turn as we delve into the realms of relationships and self-discovery. Alex shares insights on how these elements can be catalysts for growth and change, especially during challenging times. We further reflect on the shift from judgement to curiosity in team interactions, a crucial pivot fostering collaboration and growth. As we say our goodbyes, we leave you with a nugget of wisdom on the power of inquiry over judgment. Dwell on that, and you may just find the key to fostering a thriving collaborative environment. Join us on this enriching journey with Alex Atwood; there's a wealth of insights to uncover.

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Speaker 2:

This is the Rebel HR Podcast, the podcast about all things innovation in the people's space. I'm Kyle Rode. Let's start the show. All right, welcome back, hr Rebels. This is going to be a fun conversation With us. Today we have Alex Atwood. He is a purpose-driven leader and an entrepreneur with more than 20 years of experience in the hospitality and staffing space. He's also a coach in the emerging psychedelics field and specializes in optimizing human potential. So really excited for the conversation today. Side note you can't see this, but he also has a grateful dead post from the background, so a deadhead is a friend of mine for my perspective. So, alex, welcome to this show. I'm really excited for the conversation today. Thank you, I am as well. Yeah, so I think you know I gave a little bit of a brief background there, but I'd be fascinated just to understand a little bit more about your journey and what ultimately got you here as it relates to kind of what appears to be an unconventional career path.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, thanks for asking. So I built a career in the staffing and training industry, specifically around hospitality, and I have a background in staffing that literally goes back through my lineage. Both of my parents at one point own their separate staffing companies. They own one jointly when they were married and my grandfather came from the old country and financed the staffing company. So the people business in terms of staffing, which I don't necessarily relate to HR in the sense that, yes, it is human resources. However, staffing in itself as a business comes with its own set of challenges and it's very unique. It creates a very tough skin.

Speaker 1:

So I built a career there and that was my main focus and then sort of as I evolved as a leader and started to understand a little bit more about myself and sort of what works as an entrepreneur, what's healthy for a business and, specifically when you're working in an industry, that's all people you really have to understand how important training is in terms of not just skills training but being able to give other sorts of training that are more supportive in the non-technical spheres communication training, conflict resolution training and all of that which closely mirrors what happens in terms of HR. But when you're working with an industry like hospitality, where you have a lot of shift working people, there's a lot of transiency, there's a lot of cyclicality, so you have to kind of have even more supporting foundational elements there to be able to support a transient workforce. So you have to have sort of a continuum in the way that you operate your business to ensure that ultimately your product, which is people, are able to perform at their highest and have access to different types of support mechanisms. So in terms of my career, that's sort of where I built that and as I've evolved as a person, I've really started to take on what began as industry sort of consulting. That kind of moved into coaching. And so I work now with George Mason University, which is my alma mater. They have something called the Center for the Advancement of Well-Being, so for them I'm a workplace coach.

Speaker 1:

So I help teams and individuals create environments that allow them to thrive and, like you said, push boundaries and sometimes create boundaries. Believe it or not, creating boundaries is also a way of being able to optimize quality of life and performance and all of that. So in a way and I know this sounds maybe a little counterintuitive, but you can actually push boundaries by creating boundaries. So, for example, someone like myself who went through a lot of my life, as I found later was kind of a people pleaser. To create boundaries is to be able to become empowered in whatever space you're in. So anyway, that's kind of a very condensed version of my background, but hopefully it gives you sort of an idea. I'm happy to dive in wherever you feel it's relevant.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, absolutely, and I think there's a lot of different directions that we could go there.

Speaker 2:

I think I want to stay on the topic of the last thing that you shared and, as a recovering people pleaser to another, I totally resonated with me the boundaries, and I think I don't know about you, but I was always raised to be nice and also, I would say, because I'm in the people space, I can also generally intuitively understand how people's reaction are going to be to what I say or what I do or if I put a boundary in place. What's interesting for me is that by creating a boundary, sometimes it's short-term uncomfortable, but long-term extremely beneficial. But I think what a lot of it comes down to is really that kind of personal growth and that personal self-awareness and evolution as a person, not just a professional, not an HR person, but just as a human being. And so, as you think about your journey and as you think about helping leaders achieve their full potential, what role do you see self-awareness play and where do you encourage people to really start to unpack? You know the challenge of that personal growth and that leadership development.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, that's a great question. So the question about how important is self-awareness from a leadership perspective, I think it's extremely important, not just in terms of how it impacts your leadership, but how it impacts your overall well-being, which permeates your leadership. So, personally, you know, coming into the sort of the world of being an entrepreneur and doing that in the early 2000s, really the turn of the century is. When I started my first company. I can't believe the turn of the century it's like so long ago.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, cue the old-timey music.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, cue the old-timey music, you know, coming into the industry back then and specifically serving hospitality, the industry was very, you know, there was a polished aspect to how you performed hospitality there was also there was very little. Specifically, where I worked out of in Washington DC, there was very little like reach out, awareness, listening for the line-level employees, both from management and sort of in the ethos of the companies that employed them. It was almost like, hey, there's a spirit to serve. Your job is to serve the guests, serve the customer, give them an exceptional experience right from, and you leave your baggage, you know whatever it is at home and you show up with a smile and and look, that is a key component of the industry. Right, you know, you, you people go out and they expect to be entertained and and things have shifted, not so much as the expectations of guest service but in the way that as a, as an employee or someone providing the service, can relate to the guests. In other words, over time it was like don't, you know, don't, don't speak unless spoken to. Right, look the part, be the part. You know, shut up, carry the food, don't talk. You know, like, you know that type where, where now there's a bit more openness, specifically in internal management, because I think a realization came and this and this really got magnified and accelerated around the pandemic, but that, you know, the way that you treat, relate to your team members is going to highly enhance the experience that the customers receive. They that sort of permeates throughout the company where it becomes more of an authentic gift of of service that employees give because it comes from a place where they where they feel more supported.

Speaker 1:

And I've seen these initiatives happen really dramatically in the last couple of years, all sorts of different initiatives that I've talked to leaders and saying you know, we're really interested with the line level employees have to say we want to make sure that we're creating a culture that people feel comfortable in. We want to make sure that the conversations that are happening you know kitchens were notorious for for having, you know, high emotion, you know high levels of stress, right, it's like a hurry up and wait atmosphere, right. So in that sort of highly charged, emotional, potentially stressful environment, it's even more important to be able to kind of, you know, change things up in terms of the way you relate to your employees. I saw that evolve dramatically in the last few years, but it was evolving over the course of the last 20 years that I was in the business, in terms of the way that you relate to your internal employees and, interestingly enough, a lot of the ways that the service is actually delivered is in a more authentic way, like, for example, hilton opened up a brand called Canopy and there's some other brands out there where sort of your encourage as an employee to be yourself Look I, you know, I noticed you have some tattoos and so you're okay to have tattoos, right.

Speaker 1:

I remember when I first started in the industry it was like and it was it was it was said right, the you know management would say, hey, no, tattoos, any visible tattoos can't work. Right. That changed where we actually had. We actually had lots of our customers and clients came to us and said, hey, we have a brand where we actually encourage self expression and we encourage people who have tattoos, who have sort of a their own alternative look right, which was unheard of back in the early 2000s. So there's been a general mind shift. As people have gotten older, as you know, millennials and Gen C's have gotten in more positions of leadership and more positions of navigating you know sort of strategic direction there's there's been a lot more, you know, sort of tolerance, fear of tolerance, acceptance for you know, more individualism, and I think that's that's a, that is something that permeates throughout, and I think it also is has kind of moved into the HR space as well. Absolutely.

Speaker 2:

It's, but it's funny you mentioned that because I was thinking about that. So I started my career in well, working at a grocery store was the first first job and then and then I was a bartender and a server and I distinctly remember I went into the, I went into the, the interview, and I had like I think I had like a goatee, like a, like a 90s goatee, like you know, like kind of like a soul patch scruffy thing, like I thought that looked. I don't know why. I thought it looked cool, but but they, literally they're like well, it's been a great interview, but you can't work here unless you shave that or you willing to shave your face to work.

Speaker 2:

You know, and it's like I was like a bark, I was a bartender at a like chain restaurant. You know what I mean. Like it's not. Like I thought I'm not at the four seasons, right, right, yeah, there's no way the tattoos would have gone then and and yeah, I mean, but that's like I joke. Like you know, I went into HR so that I could change the dress code, so that I could have visible tattoos, right, like that's the, that's the joke. I tell people how I got into the industry.

Speaker 2:

But I do think there's so much to be said for that, like the authenticity, right, I love when I meet somebody that's like in the service industry, or just even an interaction with somebody that's maybe a peer, that you just know. They're themselves Like, like you're talking to someone that's themselves, they're authentic, they're real, they're not just like blowing smoke and I feel like we're like you know we're, we're, we're asking for, for more and more that you know in society and culturally. I think I think we're also figuring out hey, this is like this is actually really healthy, right, like this is. This is important for, for, kind of the mental health aspect as well, as we look at our you know, our, our employees and our employee experience.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I agree.

Speaker 2:

I'm curious. You know, because you know you, you see a lot of, you see a lot of different organizations, you support a lot of different leaders and and you know, obviously you're a leader and a founder yourself Um, as this has become a little bit more of the corporate zeitgeist, if you will, how do you foresee that changing the way that we work and interact with each other kind of culturally at organizations, as maybe there's a little bit of a conflict between the way we used to be and now, kind of this new authenticity that many people are bringing into the workplace?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, that's another good question. I think that for my organization, when I was the CEO, we did some exercises as a group. We brought in an outside consultant and we used a framework. I think it's called. The predictive index is what we used, and so what that entailed was going and having one-on-one conversations with each person in the company, finding out what's important to them, and then taking that and then putting it across a chart to understand what the different vectors are of different needs. Different importance is different, what they felt were core competencies, and then, as a whole, we defined ourselves as a group.

Speaker 1:

So this amalgamation of different needs and wants and skills and corporate I'm sorry, technical efficiencies and all of that, what does that have us look like as a group? So I think that, as we're opening up and having more exercises like that, we realize that look as a group, as a company, we form our own unit. We relate to each other in a certain way because of the dynamics, the intentional culture set that the company has all sorts of things and those things could be positive, they could be regenerative or they could be draining, and that really is the key and it's a fine line, because on the other side of it and corporations have every reason to be weary is that when you have groups of people come together and you have lots of transparency and conversations, well, there's opportunities for miscommunication, there's opportunities for all sorts of HR real pitfalls, right, somebody said something thinking they were transparent, and meanwhile that was taken in another way. So you have to be careful about that, especially in the way sort of things work in the sort of the culture nowadays. So it's something that I think is very promising for HR, but it also it does require its own set of guidelines and it does require its own set of almost rules to play by right, especially for companies as they're opening up themselves and having a cultural sort of shift to bring more transparency and openness and collaboration and ultimately, like a bonding between the team members, making sure that that's done in a way that also takes into account the different personalities and different ways people relate to each other and communicate with each other. Right.

Speaker 1:

So I think and I've learned this in my own organization is I've kind of traversed through opening things up to a more collaborative and co-creative type of environment. Like, do we create sort of rules of the road, just making sure people in the organization. Know that there's some things that your co-workers may or may not understand or may come from a different background, right? So that's all important. I think that's that part of HR which isn't always as fun, right Laying down certain sets of rules, but you know it's important, right? I mean it's just the reality of it, right? We'd love to all be in a circumstance where we're like kids in a kindergarten class, like you know sharing, talking, running around, being our youthful selves, but that doesn't always necessarily translate well in a work environment.

Speaker 2:

That's fair. Sometimes you do actually have to. You know work Right, exactly Sometimes you have to work Right.

Speaker 2:

I do like you know, I like that. You called out that you used a tool and I was. I had, I did the predictive index and the certification, all that good stuff. So yeah, I could, I could rattle off all the different profiles and but.

Speaker 2:

But I think I think having you know, having some sort of formulaic way to think through it and and be thoughtful and still allow kind of the you know, the, the aspects of your team that make them different and and valuable and unique, and letting people be themselves is important. I think you know I love the I can't remember who says one of the one of the like psychological influencers that said something along the lines of like you know, authenticity is great, but if you're authentically a jerk, don't do that at work, right, you know, like like you can't, you can't be fully authentic, right, you can't like like there needs to be some level of of like guardrails and I'm only half kidding but you know, yeah, you can't always tell somebody authentically exactly what you're thinking about them at that moment, cause you know you might get, then you might get in the HR person's office.

Speaker 1:

But right, and it's also. You know. It also is, like, you know, communicating effect. I mean, look you, you, you, you, if you're intent, you know, if you're communicating with an intention, that is, keeping the other person in mind, that, and, and you know their needs or their feelings or whatever's happening, you're more likely to be able to. You know we need situations in a way that's more, you know, empathetic and and it's and, but you know again, like, even, even even keeping that in mind, you just never know where someone's at right and you never know, you know how someone might feel about a particular topic or something like that, right.

Speaker 1:

So so it's as, as, as as organizations, organizations get larger, I think it's key that this ethos is injected, like, you know, an ethos of openness and transparency, right.

Speaker 1:

At the same time, I think it's important that you know, on the actual level you know, than the, on the level of, you know, actual daily work, that there are some sort of you know, some sort of boundaries in place that makes people feel comfortable and and, ideally, open communication allows for people to communicate when they feel as though there's been a boundary crossed or something like that, right, like there's some sort of there's something there that can be, that can be acted upon if needed.

Speaker 1:

So that's not just like like a free for all right, right and, and personally you know I think about, you know how I really look at that shift in in the way management and the way leadership works, and I think that you know it is. It is sort of a you know there's a fine line there, right and, and you want to make sure that you enhance positive communication as much as possible and you give an environment for that. But you also realize that there's different personalities that operate in different spaces and have different needs. So you know you always want to be be cautious of that.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, and I think it's. You know, what's interesting is we're kind of getting into the facts of the matter is that you know, leadership it's really hard because there's never really a, there's not really ever a black and white right. It's like you can't just say, well, we do this period and then there's no more dialogue. There's always this kind of like, this equation or this gray area in being a leader. I think one of the challenges for myself personally and I know many leaders is we all have these flying spots or we have these areas where we're just not necessarily aware of how we need to be thinking or what adjustments might need to be made in what we're doing. And so how can leaders kind of increase the awareness that they have here and recognize that they might need to make some adjustments and maybe mindset practices in order to effectively lead in this environment today but in the future, because you know this is going to continue to accelerate the change that we are seeing in this space?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so if it's particular with leaders, I think there's different sorts of exercises that can generate honest feedback from teams. There's all sorts of exercises. I know it's been a few years now, but I used to have an interview with each member of my team and the interview. I don't remember all of the questions. I have them all written down, but the first few questions were you know, first of all, I would set the context and the intention that this is an exercise that I'm doing specifically. It's open, I'm looking for as much feedback as I possibly can have. And then the questions are you know, what can you count on me for as a leader? And I can count on you for X, y and Z. The next question is what can you not count on me for? And that's sometimes a very difficult question for someone to answer specifically if they're talking to their boss. So there already has to be a level of transparency. I can't stress how important it is to open up that. This is something that is for my benefit. I'm asking these questions to learn about how I can improve myself and my leadership, and you'll find that if you can set just as a leader, if whoever you're talking to still isn't willing to do that. That's fine. You don't ever want to put someone in a position where they feel like they're you know they're cornered. But really opening up and opening up to that sort of feedback, right. And I got some pretty decent feedback, you know, like there was, there was very specifics where you know, I understood, I, you know I can't count on you right in a particular meeting situation to do X, and I said great, thank you for that right. And so, whatever you can get back there, and sometimes, if that isn't available or if you know, you know your organization is such that that sort of puts people into a position that they're not comfortable in, then maybe there's a way that you can solicit feedback, perhaps a third party, right, something like that but just really open.

Speaker 1:

Open feedback that's not based in a judgment but that's based in, you know, like a discovery type of deal, right.

Speaker 1:

So we're here to discover what we can do to improve X or to improve Y.

Speaker 1:

So your feedback and your sharing what your experience around this will help us to do that, and a lot of the times, if you're building a product or if you're enhancing a service business or something like that, that should be something that sort of naturally comes into the way you do things, right.

Speaker 1:

You know you want to put a product out there and you want to continuously generate feedback about that product, right, and you know the feedback ideally is unfiltered and is authentic, right? So how do you do that as a leader? Just the exercise of looking and being curious about how you can execute that as a leader, just the exercise itself will be valuable, because going through that exercise will realize the level of transparency that you have and or put an action plan together to start gathering information. So I think that's very, very important and a lot of the times it's difficult to really uncover where it is that you know improvements or where it is that things are not working well, because companies and people, especially in a work environment, don't always show up you know in an authentic way, and that sometimes can begin to lead to somewhat of an erosion of that you know culture.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, right, and I want to. You mentioned that, so and I love that question what can you not count on me to do or to be for your orders, support your however you want to phrase it, and I immediately thought how would my team answer that? And I think you know. But what was interesting, though, is in my mind I was like well, initially I like to assume that everybody would be perfectly honest with me and just be like yeah, well, this, this, this, and have like specific examples so that I could learn, and you know. But the reality is like it's one thing to say you need to ask that question. It's another thing to like make sure that you're like, you don't react in a way that makes people not want to answer it honestly, right, like even your nonverbals, like you know yeah yeah, growly, or cross your arms or get you know, get that, like I call it, resting HR face.

Speaker 2:

You know, we know, you know you don't want to, you don't want to do that. Yeah, and I think the reality is I probably, it's probably, I guarantee there's probably some people in my team that would not answer that question authentically, right off the bat, right Like like there would have to be some level of continued trust and actually in my mind, well, that's probably a blind spot in and of itself. I need to make sure that I, you know, build that relationship Right, I think. Really fascinating, you know, great example of a way to kind of do a little bit of a gut check for yourself. Yeah, yeah. So thanks for that.

Speaker 1:

I'm going to put that out, yeah, just like I said scary buddy, yeah, just the exercise of it alone, like as you start to think about, think about, you know, okay, well, how would my team even even receive this Right? And so then you'll think, ah, okay, it just kind of opens up some new possibilities in terms of communicating and learning from your team.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely, absolutely. And I think you know, I think it's circling. We're circling back to where, where we started this conversation, which is really it's a lot of the things that we're doing. A lot of this, so much goes back to your kind of your own self-discovery and your own. You know, your, your own, not just your perception of yourself but, but you know, being honest with yourself and maybe your areas where you know there are some, some, some opportunities for growth or change or just even recognition.

Speaker 2:

And so, you know, as, as you, as you reflect on that, you know what, what is maybe an area where you you've personally really kind of kind of seen this happen in your life, where, where you, you had kind of an aha moment and then you realized, oh, I need, okay, time to do a little bit of a shift in perception or perspective, and and and and. You know, ultimately, where did that take you?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I mean there's been a lot of those. I think that one aha moment just around exactly what we're discussing in terms of the importance of relationships and building a very strong, cohesive, collaborative environment was around the pandemic, when we had a group of people that were working to serve an industry that literally went away one day. I mean, it just totally shut down. We had to somehow build something out of nothing with a group that was eager to continue to work together, whether it was working on what our existing service model was, or serving our existing market, which was non-existent, or creating something new. We were able to do that. We were able to, as a group, create something that was relevant at the time. It wasn't in staffing, but it was in servicing what was happening to our clients at the time, being able to have our team members rehired, redeployed, learning an entirely different new skill set. We ended up laying. There was a lot of members of our team to get laid off at all, but the ones that did, we did our best and brought the majority of them back to work in this new model that we had to create. That was one of those things where it was like the aha moment was a culmination of my personal resilience that was built up through self-awareness, along with the relationships that I built. That became tested during that really challenging time for the industry, resulted in something that was created and it ended up sustaining for a period of time. That was a really great aha moment and it kind of combined everything.

Speaker 1:

But there's also lots of aha moments. I think that aha moments are generally seen as a moment of clarity, but there's also moments I don't know if you call them aha, but there's also moments of judgment that there may be something, a path you're on or a decision you make or something like that. Although it's maybe rooted in the best of intentions or the best, it just doesn't work out the way that you plan. I think it's as important to take those moments and find a way to remove judgment from those particular moments, because I don't know about you, but personally I get judgment moments all the time. My judge shows up and says why did you do that? You should have done this. The aha moments don't come all the time. The moments of clarity the judgments do, going towards converting a judgment into more of an inquiry, into more of curiosity like why am I thinking? Like what could I have done. That'll permeate through communication. A lot of the times.

Speaker 1:

People may be with team members in a room and they hold all these judges. The team didn't do this right. Why did that happen? Not on time? Whatever that looks like, even if you're standing there judging your words, no matter what the actual words are, what's behind the words is going to be a judgment, is going to put people on the defensive, checking yourself when you're working with others to say are my words and are my actions and who I'm being? Am I sitting in a place of judgment? It's just something to check. Oh, I am judging it. I am judging this person or this circumstance. How can I shift from a judgment to a curiosity? If you think about it, let's say you're working with someone and I'll just make up a name John. Hey John, what happened with this? Why wasn't this delivered on time? There's a huge difference between that Same words. Hey John, what happened with this? I'm just curious. I'm wondering why this wasn't delivered. You're going to get an entirely different response. Same words, same language, different state of being, inquiry versus judgment, totally different environment. Anyway, yeah.

Speaker 2:

I think it's fascinating. Yes, I totally agree. A lot of times the worst judgments come against yourself. Oh yeah, it's like, oh, that wasn't perfectly landed, or that I wasn't totally, totally authentic in that interaction, or jeez, that could have been softer, et cetera. But I do think that that self-awareness and the facts that matter is that'll permeate through and people will see it. People will know If you're judging yourself. They're just going to assume you're going to jump into it. So, very well said. Some really good, great leadership reminders here and some really good content. I'm fascinated. I'm going to switch gears. We're going to go into the Rebel HR flash round. I'm fascinated to hear your perspective on the flash round questions. Are you ready? Yeah, let's go. All right. Question number one where does HR need to rebel Rebell.

Speaker 1:

Well, keeping along with the same sort of context and discussion that we're having, I think a lot of what HR talks about now is sort of cultural fit. Right, is the person a cultural fit? And maybe, if we're talking about an amalgamation of different people that change the shape of a company as they're coming in and really sort of tapping into what the needs and who each person is, maybe it's not a cultural fit, but maybe it's like a cultural enhancement or a cultural addition or something like that. Right, like hey, do they fit into our culture of you know, blah, blah, blah, blah. No, it's not the best fit.

Speaker 1:

Okay, but let's look at, are we attached to this particular culture that we have? Right, is this culture that we have conducive to potentially bring a culture addition? So, maybe there's addition. So we're not just trying to fill spaces in our existing culture but we're trying to elevate our culture. Right, and so there could be additions to be made that elevate right.

Speaker 1:

So just a thought and I think it's something that, because there's so much talk in the space now about culture and culture and what's our culture, and all that, great to define your culture, and let's not put every single new potential employee through this stringent lens of that culture. Let's look at what they bring holistically right, and it could add right. You may have a culture of really openness and transparency. This person may be more of an introvert, but guess what? That person could be able to contribute a lot to what's missing in the company. You know what I mean. So it could actually elevate the company by bringing in someone who doesn't necessarily fit the template that you set up. So I think that's a different way to look at things, you know.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely. I love it A little bit of a light bulb moment or an aha moment for me there. If you're constantly looking for fit, for somebody to fit, quote into the box, you're never going to get out of it right. To use kind of maybe an overused analogy. But if you want to innovate, if you want to drive change, if you want to continue to grow, you've got to be open-minded. So I think that was really well said. Question number two who should we be listening to you should?

Speaker 1:

be listening to the people working behind the scenes because I think their insights could be extremely enlightening. And specifically, you're looking at the industry I used to serve right, the people who have in the hospitality industry, the people with the direct access to the customer experience, of the guest experience to themselves, to the quote on quote culture, are the people Most of the time the hourly shift workers, who are on the front line serving, greeting, helping, supporting cleaning rooms, doing all of that right? So, and what are the times those people are not necessarily feeling powered to say anything. So, finding ways to listen to those people behind the scene, this people who are necessarily not the most vocal, right, because maybe their roles don't necessarily allow or constitute sort of a vocal impression on things. But finding ways to be able to gather Inside and listen to those groups that are executing on the ground level, I think those are gonna be extremely transformative.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, absolutely night. So and you know my my day to day job, a lot of my employees are manufacturing employees directly where places very, very similar context, where it's like you know, if you wanna find humility in your life, you know, go ask him if they read, you know, read your latest communication, right? Yeah, what are you talking about? I don't care about.

Speaker 2:

you know it's like oh, okay, I guess I Guess it's not a special as I thought it was yeah yeah, you figure out, exactly figure out what your culture is by asking, right, you know, sometimes we like to trick ourselves into thinking it's one thing, what's Good to be more? Alright, last question here so great content we are, you know, just some, some wonderful nuggets here on this, in this conversation. How can our listeners connect with you? How can they check out your podcast, learn more and I get connected with you out.

Speaker 1:

Sure, yes, no one way is you? Can you go to my website? It's alex at what dot co. So alex a one T W O O D is in david dot co, not dot com. Leave the m off. That's one way. Another way is if they're interested in my podcast is called the alchemist lounge. You can find it really anywhere podcast, spotify, apple, you know, you name it. You also go to my website and be linked to it. And yeah, and finally, you know, if you want to reach out to me can reach me on linkedin, reach me on my website. I'm always happy to lend any insights. We didn't even dive into psychedelics, really, I know. So I'm always happy to lend insights. If anyone's interested in anything that we discussed here today, or just learning more about what I do, feel free to reach out. I'm always open and happy to talk to.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely. We'll have all that information, the show notes, so so check it out. Yeah, that always happens. It's like there's like a couple things I want to talk about. The conversation just get so good and then Feel like it's just warm it up and then it's over.

Speaker 2:

So yeah thanks for spending your time with us and really appreciate you being generous. I was a diamond in knowledge and a lot of great takeaways. So thanks, alex. Thank you all right. Take care, man, take care, all right. That does it for the rebel hr podcast. Thank you to our guests. Follow us on facebook at rebel hr podcast, twitter at rebel hr guy, or see our website at rebel human resources dot com. Views and opinions expressed by rebel hr podcast of those of the authors and you're not necessarily reflect the official policy or position Any of the organizations that we represent. No animals were hard during the filming this podcast.

Speaker 1:

Maybe,

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