Episode 15: Jaded/Rebel Human Resources

Kyle Roed: 0:00

I'm Kyle Roed and this is the rebel HR podcast. Rebel HR is a podcast for HR professionals who are ready to make some disruption in the world of work. Follow us online on Facebook at rebel HR podcast, Rebel human resources.com. or follow me on twitter at rebel HR guy, Rebel HR podcast listeners, I am absolutely thrilled for today's show. We're gonna have a little bit of fun here and do something a little bit different. So we have the co host of jaded HR. We have Patrick consists Did I say that right, Patrick? You got it? And well, nice. And the man was perhaps the best name in HR Warren, work, man. I think I've heard that one somewhere before I thought I've known more now for six years. And I never thought about how great His name is. It's so perfect. It's like you were born to be HR. I've always said focus on his face and ever think about his name. podcast, today's podcast, we are going to be doing something a little different. We are going to be rebranding this as the jaded rebel HR podcast. So sit yourself down, you're in for a treat. All right, we're gonna we're gonna start off here. I would like for the two of you guys to introduce yourselves. Tell us a little bit about yourselves and as much as you'd like about your career and tell us a little bit about jaded HR Warren, why don't we start with you? Already? Well, I've been in HR for now over 20 years, graduated with a degree in management concentration in HR. And, yeah, I've been straight out of college, I did a retail job which sucked. And then I found my way into HR recruiting. And at a great time, I've worked at colleges or law firm accounting firm. And now I'm at it and technology firm. And 20 years is just enough time to get a little bit jaded. Right, Warren? Absolutely. 20 minutes.

Patrick Concilus: 2:08

Patrick, tell us a little bit about yourself. Hey. So I got started in HR in recruiting as well, I believe back in 2008. So I'm going on 12 years, which sounds a lot more experienced than I really am. And I'm now more focused on like an hrs side of things. So I have that cool position of still being an HR and getting to be a part of all the fun. craziness, if you can call it that, but not having to actually deal with people. So I just, it really is the best of both worlds.

Warren Workman: 2:43

Patrick taking the human out of HR. I love it.

Patrick Concilus: 2:48

Yeah, exactly. I'm trying to automate HR. That's my whole thing. I'm with you, man. I'm all for it. I'm all for let's, let's take a process. Let's digitize a process. And then my perspective is then we can focus on the people. Yeah, exactly. I'm with you. You're doing the greater good. Guys. Tell me a little bit about the podcast? Well, I guess we started a little bit earlier this year, we launched our episodes in when April I believe we started launching our episodes, but we've been

Warren Workman: 3:19

What's our launch date? Very appropriate and not at all intended. But yeah, we've been thinking about it. We've talked about it purse together around Thanksgiving timeframe. We had our little group get together for Thanksgiving, and I tossed it out there. And we had a good time. Yeah, I think our goal was, you know, we had you're being an HR and you have all these fun stories that happen fun, crazy employees, they come in with some random question, you know, we all have those experiences. And we're like, how can we? How can we share those in a way that is funny and I don't know provide some kind of value and and I think our it's a really fun dynamic being on your show, because you really bring a lot of professionalism and, you know, change the HR world. You do, we're gonna change that right in. I like to think that we add, we add some value by trying to give HR people and really anyone in retail or has to do with people kind of a break. I like to think of us as like, the bridesmaid of movies, like it's one of those movies you just want to put on when you don't want to turn your mind off and just kind of like, watch and laugh and listen a little bit. I get it. You know what I love about your podcast as I was catching up on some of the episodes. It's a release for HR people, right? I mean, this this job can be isolating at times. It can be frustrating. And a lot of times you're dealing with other people's issues that you don't really you don't have time to you know, think about your own issues.

Patrick Concilus: 4:55

Yeah, you know, one of your guests a few weeks ago said it best talking about going to show conferences and things, that's when you let their hair down, they let their hair down and things get a little wild and crazy. And that's what we want to be, we want to be that bobbin crazy ride home. So you can vent and shake your head and know exactly what we're talking about what we've gone through is nothing we're saying is really unique to Patrick or myself. It's stuff that all HR people go through, no matter what industry you're in. I think too, we're all at least I'm still remote. I know a lot of people are still remote. So you don't have that HR team dynamic where you have that shoulder to cry on all the time. So I think we wanted that warm and fuzzy feeling coming into your brain of just there are people out there still going through this, and HR people are having a really tough time right now we're having to deal with a lot of things and shoulder a lot of weight that the organization is taking. And I don't know, I think we want to just kind of an outlet for people to listen, and I don't know, COVID starting, you know, we didn't plan COVID that wasn't our whole thing to try to make our podcasts better. But I think it just kind of worked out to where, hey, we can be that little fun escape from your day. Hopefully, that's great. No, I love that. And I think we all need that. Right? We, you know, I don't have my, I don't have a crying room at my house, you know, and but I definitely have three little kids screaming in the background, and I might have an employee on the other line that needs me to pay some attention to.

Kyle Roed: 6:20

So it's, uh, that's all good. So all right, let's get into that. Let's just have a little fun today. So I want to start up, I'm actually curious to talk about a couple things that are kind of popping up in the world of HR and get your guy's perspective. Cuz I have my own opinion on some of these things. But I think you guys are gonna be very articulate in how you respond to this. So that is fired them all. Alright, so as we talk, that's a good, that's a good segue. So I wanted to talk about employee surveillance during a remote work environment. So you know, I was reading this article, I think it was a Sherm article, and there's like, it was highlighting five companies that do everything from like, low jack your cell phone, to know where you're at, to literally taking pictures of your face, to make sure that you are in front of your computer and not like responding to email on your cell phone, or something like that. So what so so are you guys, I guess a thumbs up or thumbs down on Big Brother.

Warren Workman: 7:26

BIG thumbs down big all the way up.

Kyle Roed: 7:29

Patrick all the way up. So I think for me, it's, we had a few stories like as well, where managers were actually going to people's houses to like micromanage because they couldn't get enough of it. And there was a policy where the manager or supervisor could actually go and check on employees make sure their setup was professional and good enough for the work environment. But yeah, I, I don't actually think it's a good thing. But I think we've seen from like school zoom meetings, there's been a lot of stories of kids finding loop looping workarounds, where they create a vat of zoom background of themselves at their desk, but they're not actually there. So they're just kind of staring at their computer screen. There's all these things that I guess employees can and will do, we always we like calling loophole employees on our podcast, it's the ones that they spend more time not working, then are trying to figure out how to not work than actually just doing their job. But now I think companies need to chill out. It's that whole transparency and flexibility that we're kind of needing to offer and this this troubled times. Yeah, I agree with Patrick, the wandering, I saw thing on LinkedIn today about a company that's offering taking screenshots of your computer screens remotely. And that's just way too much. If you don't trust your employees, you've got bigger problems. And then that Oh, man, I thought you guys are gonna be out for it. And despite hrs

Patrick Concilus: 8:55

ever present a stereotype of being the principal's office, or the police force of the organization, I think we're trying to get away from that and just trust that employees will get the work done. The best way they can some one of our early episodes, a person was complaining about this long list of options that their company sent them on how to get work done from home, and it was things like, you know, do some work on the weekends, you know, work odd hours, schedule thing, but it was all these just great ideas on, hey, we're giving you seven days of the week to get your work done. You don't have to be at your computer from nine to five. It was actually the company doing a really great job of saying, Hey, we're flexible. You be flexible. We just want you to get the work done and offering these kind of great alternatives on how to do that. But the employee took it, too. Oh my gosh, they're micromanaging me. They're telling me I need to work on weekends and all these different things. And so yeah, we gave that employee a hard time because no, that's that's not what it was.

Warren Workman: 9:52

No, exactly. There's so many examples of that when employees just want to take things to the nth degree that it really isn't. That's not Really what it is, lighten up, Nancy.

Kyle Roed: 10:02

That's a great point. I you know, if you have to monitor your employees through software, how much how frequently? Are they moving their mice mouse around on their computer? And, you know, what if they haven't moved that in 15 minutes, that means they're definitely stealing from the company by loafing you know, like that kind of that approach? My thing is like, I don't, I don't want to work there. No, right, who wants to do wants to work their

Unknown: 10:27

words, gonna get out quick what you're doing, then you're gonna have more problems.

Kyle Roed: 10:32

I look at that as it's almost like an infringement of my privacy. Right. I have some strongly held beliefs that, you know, we should have some semblance of privacy, even though nobody, nobody has it. But especially from your employer, right. I mean, like, like, talk about Big brother. I really don't want big brother and my big sister employer, like both of them watching me. You know, FBI has already got me on I don't need my watch me too.

Warren Workman: 11:02

What's in your search history?

Kyle Roed: 11:04

Yeah. Yeah, it's you know, it's it's probably not nearly as exciting as anybody at my company thinks it is.

Warren Workman: 11:12

I can tell you, mine's probably pretty good. We you know, we have a series going on and shit HR, we call it about poop incidents at work. And so if you look at my search entry, its history, you're gonna see things like people shitting at work, you know, employees, should they get work and things like that. I'm just waiting for someone to come in and take my computer. And what's your problem? Dude? Why do you have all these shitting histories?

Patrick Concilus: 11:39

we don't we don't judge. You know, what your pleasure part of your brain it gets it from like,

Kyle Roed: 11:45

Okay, so we're going we are going down this line of questioning because I have so many poop stories. It's not even funny. Oh, Warren, I think we had this conversation a few weeks back where we both have a connection to retail. So my question for you is did you actually have a code for poop? Like, a code at the store that you own like dial

Patrick Concilus: 12:10

three aisles manual again,

Unknown: 12:14

not what not that I recall working retail. But I did work at a waterpark and I don't remember the code. But it was a severe, not a severe problem. But there would be a problem with people shitting in the pools, whether if it was a kid's little swimmer diaper came off or footlong turds floating down the lazy river, all the sudden, you know, if we have a code read, I don't even remember. I don't even remember the code by just it happened. And of course, you have to shut down and all that other fun stuff go through safety protocols. But yeah, sitting at work. And one of the times my daughter who's working at the waterpark, she's she didn't even remember to code and she's on. She's like blowing your whistle and trying to get someone's attention. There's a giant turd.

Warren Workman: 13:02

yelling and things like that. So

Patrick Concilus: 13:04

yeah. Hey, Kyle, help you out. I started about about 2145 that started if you want to go and cut that out. Just Yeah.

Kyle Roed: 13:13

Yeah, that's good. That's good. Thanks for helping me edit this because I'm gonna have a heavy job here. It's all good. You know, we we actually so we called it code Brown. And we would announce it three times over the over the walkie talkie. And, and whoever whichever manager on duty was, like, unlucky enough to be closest to the bathroom was the person that got tagged and Guess whose office was closest to the bathroom? A HR guy, right? So I'm like, like, the designated code brown guy just because of the proximity. Yeah, you're, you're you're hitting a vein there, Warren, you cut into the core of me. So for any listeners that are like thinking about HR as a career would be really fun. We're gonna peel back the layers of that onion a little bit and give you a what I call an our an RJ p a realistic job preview, retail you know, we would deal with something called shrinkage which is people stealing stuff. fancy way of saying people steal. So some guy grabs something, and goes sprinting out the store. Mind you, I'm like 20 something years old right out of college first, first real job out of college and, and this, this guy sprinting with a CD shoved down his pants and gets tackled by the security guard, which is not a recommended practice. You're not really supposed to do that. But the security guard guy, you know, he watched a lot of like 80s action movies and he's, you know, he was all geared up. So he goes after this guy tackles him beautiful tackle. And the guy completely crapped his pants, I mean, just like, everywhere in the entire front of the store. And so I'm coming out and I'm like, like, it's like mass panic. And I'm running out here and I'm like, What do I do? What do I do and then Like, go get the mop. Okay, this, this is what I'm doing now. And you know what it's been, it's been a rewarding career ever since. And I encourage anybody to think about going into HR, because, you know, you're gonna have an enriching and fun filled career ahead of you. I mean,

Patrick Concilus: 15:19

the good news is they don't sell CDs anymore. So at least know what to do with that.

Kyle Roed: 15:22

Yeah, I'm dating myself, right? It's like, like, now it would be like somebody was downloading Apple, you know, iTunes, and appropriately and, and that would be it.

Unknown: 15:33

No, but HR people, we do have the best stories we've said on any number of our episodes, the things we have to go through the things we have to deal with, that other people that aren't in HR will not believe, like, Oh, yeah, you're full of stuff. But then, you know, if you're an HR person, I can see that happening, you nod your head? Yep. And they're done that it's amazing. You have stories that no one no one else will have. And you get to know some really cool information. We all have stories, but there's always this level of how much can I actually tell.

Kyle Roed: 16:09

Because, you know, you don't want to implicate your employer or former employer or, you know, identify any employees. And there's this whole, there's, you know, you have to be confidential as a part of your role. And so there's, there's kind of this like, fine line, I think the person that comes up with the book, that ghost writer, that can keep their identity confidential and like figure out a way to actually write that book, of all the crazy shit that they've dealt with, you know, that that person's got got something on their hands right there. I think that that would be a good book,

Patrick Concilus: 16:45

you brought up something that Warren and I have talked about before, and it's and maybe this is a good question for you, I'm turning the interview around, or Warren and I or maybe some are podcasts like yourself, are we breaking some hr fightclub rule? where, you know, what happens in the HR room stays in the HR room, I mean, we we want to share that was the whole point, because it is crazy. And it is obscene. And, you know, you're literally mopping up poo. But is there some unwritten, you know, HR Fight Club rules that that maybe we were unaware of?

Kyle Roed: 17:18

You know, what I, I took my blood oath for HR, you know, probably 1516 years ago. And, you know, but I think it's expired by now. I think the statute of limitation was only like 10 years. So I think I'm good. With all kidding aside, I, you know, I want to peel back the curtain a little bit. You know, I think one of the issues with HR is we're not human, to a lot of people

Warren Workman: 17:43

faces

Kyle Roed: 17:44

too uptight. Right? I came up the same way as everybody else, I just happen to have a role in human resources. But that doesn't mean that I get where you're coming from, or, or maybe I you know what, maybe I don't agree with this policy, but it's the policy that we got. And that's what we got to do. Or I'm dealing with a manager who has a problem performer and is frustrated, because I'm, I'm taking my sweet time on figuring out how to deal with that person. But it's because none of these solutions are easy. And a lot of times nobody's happy with where I end up. Right. And so, you know, I think that's part of the reason that I started just sharing content in general is the fact that HR has bad rap. In and if you don't think you do, then you're you're lucky or you haven't run into that HR person that gave HR bad rap, right? Like, I want to evangelize what we're doing it but also humanize the world of work and business and employers and help people understand that, you know, we're not here with some, like, misguided mission on making people's lives miserable. We all have good intentions. That's

Warren Workman: 18:53

just the added benefit.

Kyle Roed: 18:57

Well, yeah, present company aside, we're all not here to make everybody's lives miserable. So yeah, so I get a little bit, I get a little bit passionate about it. And I but I do think it's one of those things where, like, we we need to band together. And I also look at HR is one of those things like when I started it was it truly was like the personnel department, right? It's like, they're the ones that process payroll, they make sure people are filling the seats at the company, and then they shut up and go back to their office, right. Like, that's what HR kind of started out, as, you know, it wasn't really an occupation 100 years ago, because all of the human management was part of the people that ran the business or ran the departments and so, you know, we're kind of shifting into a new age. And so that's really, I mean, that's the mission of rebel hrs to start to think about, okay, where are we going? And how is HR gonna lead when we get there? So you know, yeah, now you got me on my soapbox now. A lot, Patrick.

Patrick Concilus: 20:00

That's all right. That's right. That's

Unknown: 20:02

what JD stance I've said on our, on our podcast any number of times that you can't be jaded, if you don't take the job seriously, you know, if you don't take the job seriously, you're just sort of mad. And you know, and you become part of the drama, but when you're jaded, you have fun with it, you know, as well, you know, when you get in the card, and you can take off that poker face. And you can say, WTF Did I just have to do? Why? Yeah. Why? Why? You know, you know, what was this person thinking? How did you come up with a concept, I thought that this was a good idea. And everything would be hunky dory after you do whatever it is. But it just once again, neverending stories you will you if you were to write down all these little stories. Now we were talking to we had a social hour with some of our former co workers. And when I was trying to give one to talk about a story and she'd forgotten about the person walked into her office not wearing any pants or underwear. applying for a job. She has so many things going on that that one just happened to just slip her mind. But that's that's HR.

Kyle Roed: 21:11

Did they get the job? Negative? Yeah, route not the job they applied for?

Patrick Concilus: 21:19

Well, you dress for the job Jesus work. Yeah. Yeah,

Kyle Roed: 21:24

yeah. Nobody, nobody will prepare you for the the nudity, and the end the bodily functions that you have to deal with in human resources. That right now that is the theme of this podcast episode. That's, that's a first guys. Thanks.

Patrick Concilus: 21:39

Welcome to HR. I think another top thing on just to touch on what Lauren was saying, too, and I think I mentioned earlier that team dynamic, we were lucky enough to have a really dynamic group that had a really morbid sense of humor. So as soon as you hung up the phone on a really difficult, you know, hour long phone call trying to explain health benefits to a person that you had to like describe it in the form of cheese or something like we could, we could first applaud you for handling it so well. But then you could just unload. And that really is what, you know, these podcasts I think are great for and we are a friendly voice in your ear just helping you get through the day, because you're alone. And it's hard right now. I mean, it's hard all the time, but it's especially hard right now.

Kyle Roed: 22:27

Absolutely. And, and for any HR people out there listening right now, I think it's, it can be really isolating in this in this job. And, you know, it's it's important to know that there there is a tribe out there, there's a community out there, and we're all dealing with the same crazy, wild stuff. And, you know, I think one of the one of the things that I love about the podcast community in general, it's just, it's the connection. And it's the it's the openness to support each other. You know, it's not like, it's not like a lot of industries where there's a lot of competitors and you know, people are out to, to edge out it's, it's just truly people I think are just wanting to connect and help. And I and I truly think that one of the things that's been really inspiring for me has been the the amount of online resources that have come available to human resources, but to all professionals, I you know, look at all the look at all the people that are doing, like free trainings, and free support resources and all this stuff. And, you know, I get like 50 spam emails a day. But there's a lot of there's a lot of altruism in that and that, that gives me comfort in all of the headlines and negativity and all that good stuff that's, that's popping up. And all employees

Unknown: 23:43

are becoming social justice warriors on, you know, whatever the social media site is, you know, oh, XYZ company, they completely wrong to me. And, you know, and they want to let everybody know, but you look into them like they didn't wrong you.

Kyle Roed: 24:00

How do you guys like glass door?

Unknown: 24:02

One thing you need to remember is the people that are going to leave reviews, there are going to be the ones who have a bone to pick. Very rarely Are you gonna see reviews of somebody, I have a legitimate review. Let me let me qualify that statement, a legitimate review. Somebody said, Oh, this is the best place in the world to work, yada yada yada, that people don't go there to do that. Not legitimately I know companies will put out little things. Hey, you know, please leave us a good comment. They handpick the employees on Glassdoor. But you know, there was just a big article I read last week I think it was about the Amazon rating system, how it's been flawed and manipulated. So the same thing can be done easily on on Glassdoor you could put something on that Mechanical Turk or whatever to you know, pay people you know two cents to leave a to leave a great review on accompany in. But, you know, as you know, I changed jobs about a year and a half ago, I did look at the Glassdoor ratings of the company I was going to, but I read it with a grain of salt. You know, when I

Patrick Concilus: 25:12

when I looked at it, I still love reading Glassdoor comments for different companies. Golden and especially companies that like you've worked for in the past, and some of them are just shaking your head like yeah, yeah, yeah, I wouldn't say that. But I got it. I love reading Glassdoor reviews, um, you know, it's it is true people that are gonna leave a review for anything, whether it's a product or typically gonna leave a negative review. But man, they're funny. And there's always some truth in that even if they're far fetched and wild accusations, the best part are always what can they do to better themselves or whatever the question is, you know, what can they do better? And sometimes just like nothing, start from scratch, fire everyone fire all management, they need to start all over or any comments you see like that?

Kyle Roed: 26:01

I love it. My favorite Glassdoor reviews are the ones from the interns. Because you know that somebody in HR is like, hey, it's week one. Can you do me a favor and go out on Glassdoor and give us a five star review? It'd be really great. And you know, it's like, total indoctrination. And then the other one is like, the, you know, the one star review. And it's like, their performance management was really terrible. And you know, that person got fired, fired because he cut someone out or had a really terrible conduct issue. And it's just yeah, I kind of, I kind of have a love hate relationship with Glassdoor I do think there's some, there's a lot of value there. For somebody who is looking to join an organization and has no no perspective whatsoever on what that organization is like, and the organizations that aren't like it savvy. Like they're probably legit, right? But any organization that like focuses on Glassdoor, they're, they're gonna be they're gonna be a little bit fuzzy.

Patrick Concilus: 27:10

Can I can I read a fun glass door that I just saw? Yes, please. Okay, it's it's under the pros, column. Pros. None. Period. overworked employees must now work Saturday and the Lord's Day. Horrible cheap owner must must be a Jewish. No one should be forced to work all weekend. Ah, Khan's not paid for work done.

Kyle Roed: 27:32

Have you guys ever been shamed for your Glassdoor rating by other HR people?

Warren Workman: 27:37

No, I don't think so. Nobody's ever talked to me about, Hey, your company's got a low low rating.

Kyle Roed: 27:45

Okay, so we're gonna talk. So we're gonna talk a little bit of smack about HR here. So okay, I'm at an HR conference a few years back, and I won't name names, but with some very lovely people, wonderful HR professionals. And it got it literally turned into a pissing match of what's your Glassdoor score? Well, mine's a 4.80. You're 4.8 I'm a five. Oh, yeah. How many? Like literally, like going around and they come to me and I'm like, I don't know. Anyone just like I'm like, and it's just like, you know, I, I might as well just handed in my, my, my name tag and said, Okay, I guess I'm going home. This conference is over.

Unknown: 28:24

One of the things I don't like about Glassdoor views is when you they have someone that gives you a like a one stars, you can't give zero stars on it. One star review and just completely disgruntled. It's all awful. No baseless reviewed glass door regardless of anything else won't take it down. If you you know if you ask them to and that that is sort of a shame is you know, that's, you know, someone's saying some completely baseless information. Yeah, people are gonna be ticked off. You got fired because you're a moron. You want to vent on Glassdoor. That's great. Well, Warren, I got a new job for you. You don't go around and respond to Glassdoor reviews. You can say whatever you want. There's no sensor shaming, you can respond to bad Glassdoor reviews. Well,

Warren Workman: 29:16

we should have fired dress sooner.

Kyle Roed: 29:20

To your comment, Patrick. So the whole like the sentiment that let's just fire everybody and start over. So how many times in your career in HR? Have you thought that about your job?

Patrick Concilus: 29:33

Well, I actually I made that comment on our team meeting last Friday, because we have these people that keep having the same issues. It's like the same three people. And I just say, Can we just fire them then they he goes away? Not really firing management. I just yeah, I think that is a good solution. Sometimes.

Kyle Roed: 29:51

problem exists between chair and keyboard. I feel like it's one of those things where you might be, you've got good training programs. You probably invested a ton of time and energy and equity and sweat in bringing somebody into an organization. And they start, and they don't know, the job, they don't know every aspect of the job. And then you get a manager in your office, like, we need to fire this person. Now, they don't get it, they're never going to get it, you know, we're talking like one week on the job. And then and then you're like, DJ, teach them. Job. It's been one week, right? So Warren, give me a give me a scenario where you've had one of those, like, you've had a manager that's like, this person's got to go. And you're that you're kind of the one in the middle between the manager and the employee. And you're, you got to make the call, what do you give me that scenario? What do you do?

Unknown: 30:46

Well, I've been there any number of times where they're, they're at this point where they want to fire someone, and, you know, this is the jaded HR side of things, but show me your documentation. When did you talk to them? What did you know? How did it outcome? What what changes did you make to try and make things work better? How would you explain it? And without documentation, you know, I'm not gonna be able to do anything. And, you know, that only gets manager mad, you know, that's your job. dadadada da, you know, I want to see what, why we're, we're firing this person after a week, what have they done? That's so, so awful, what could you have done better, and they, they hate that they hate turning it around on them and making them have to do work for you to do to get rid of them? help them out? Hey, I'm helping you. Let's build this. Let's build this case, let's, hey, you know, you said that they they been 15 minutes late every day this week. Let's write that down. Did you talk to them? What did they say? Did they have a good excuse? a lame excuse? Did they care? You know, just document document document. And they just never learned is it's the same managers? It's and you know, it is always the same? Not always, but it's mostly same managers coming back to you, I need to get rid of some I need to get rid of someone, what did you do, you know, and they, after years, they still don't know the routine. Before we get to that point, unless it's egregious. I need to know what they've done what you've done. And, you know, we got to put ourselves in the best light we, we did everything we could to help this wayward soul. But even our best efforts couldn't, couldn't help them.

Kyle Roed: 32:20

So for the employees listening out there that think like, this is totally unfair, and this is baseless and all that there's a lot that should go into a pre disciplinary decision. And, and that's, I think that's one of the challenges where HR gets kind of the rap of being the police, right? Where we're the ones that somebody was not he, they go to the principal's office, and then the principal decides, well, you know, you get, we'll give you a one, we'll give you one detention, but you know, we won't suspend you or, you know, what, full expulsion You're fired. That's, that's like a learned skill that when you get into the profession, you don't necessarily have that skill, you have to develop it over a number of years. And then, and then you have managers that don't like to follow the process and document and, and documenting is hard. It's kind of a pain and it's not fun. And so I you know, I, I totally get it, but it's, it's, it's just part of the job. Part of being the part of being the HR person. Right. Exactly.

Patrick Concilus: 33:26

And they don't come to me for those kind of things. I got an itchy trigger finger and I can't undo terminations once again.

Kyle Roed: 33:36

I get so many sales emails from HR is and ATMs and whatever new hot AI trend is. I'm more jaded on the side of like, all of the unkept promises like, Oh, yeah, this is truly gonna take you paperless. But you still have to do a wet ink signature on this document, right? Like, well, then why did I just do this six month project to go pay? That's, that's part of the challenge.

Unknown: 34:00

Well, you just said you've said a couple times tonight call some that's one of my pet peeves. A number of email solicitations. We get as HR I don't think that any other department gets as many solicitations as we do. I literally get 50 or more solicitations a day for something. If you haven't seen my LinkedIn profile the underline is do not contact me for solicitations. I just it blows my mind how many people think of that my only job to do is read their emails. I hope this email finds you well. Nope. Gone. No. We've got the best hrs, ATMs you name it that you can Oh, we're the best staffing agency. Yep. Okay, next. Yeah. It just really infuriates me.

Kyle Roed: 34:48

He's not kidding. It literally is it's in all caps. Please do not contact me for solicitation.

Unknown: 34:55

I just got that up one day. I just happened to be on LinkedIn and I noticed that I could tell who was going to call me 20 minutes later. And if you also one of my know this person, Tracy, she looked at my LinkedIn profile and sent me an email. I had an email 40 minutes later, and I thought I don't don't be a Tracy. No, come on people. I've got so much to do, you know, you all as well, being an HR department, one I've never purchased, use the vendor who just called me out of the blue to do something, if I want something, I go out, I do my research, and I contact the companies I'm interested in. I'm not going to, you know, just vote this year, you may you know, great email, I'm gonna call you and give you my business, especially the ones that go to, you know, they don't even know your name, though. Like completely zero effort emails.

Kyle Roed: 35:53

So Patrick, you seem like a tech savvy guy. If you can figure out like if you can figure out an HR spam blocker. Sounds like Warren would be all over that.

Patrick Concilus: 36:02

Well, I put Warren's name on a lot of these different subscriptions.

Kyle Roed: 36:06

Good.

Patrick Concilus: 36:08

There's a reason.

Unknown: 36:09

Yeah, that's what I feel like I'm like, you know, an unsubscribe doesn't do anything except get you more emails. I think I think oh, yeah, he responded, you know, so I don't even unsubscribe anymore.

Kyle Roed: 36:22

Russia ETS tracking system contacted me right now. I don't know.

Patrick Concilus: 36:28

For me, I feel insulted because I get spams. Like, hey, do you need help completing your I nines? I'm like, What do you think? I'm just getting started? Like, why do I need help with that?

Kyle Roed: 36:36

I'm a little bit open to it. Because every once in a while, I'll get a great resume, just a random resume that just pops in there. And it's some recruiter that I've never talked to this to email to my CEO, and then the CEO forwards it to me, and I'm like, Who is this knucklehead? And I look at the resume, like, yes, this person looks pretty good. I'm very cold person, you know, it's like, it's so that so? Like, it must work a little better. They wouldn't do it, right? Like, there's got to be a little little kernel of there's some conversions happening.

Warren Workman: 37:10

No, it's happening.

Unknown: 37:13

It's this this spray and pray method, you know, something's gonna

Kyle Roed: 37:17

spray. Yeah, or throw throw it, throw it against the wall and see what sticks. Right? That's Yeah. No, I don't know. It's probably like, you know, I remember earlier in my career, when I was totally naive, and I'm, like, you know, like, new and an HR manager role back, you know, many years ago, and I'm like, oh, what's the, oh, this person's gonna really help me figure out my applicant flow. Oh, I better contact that person. Right. And you know, the person on the other end of the emails like, what somebody really responded.

Warren Workman: 37:48

I got one.

Kyle Roed: 37:49

I got one. Yeah.

Patrick Concilus: 37:51

I just reminded me Have y'all ever had to do the had the HR department do that there's kind of drills like

Kyle Roed: 37:57

active shooter training. Yeah, yeah.

Patrick Concilus: 37:59

Yeah, we took it a little too dark on a drill one time, they asked HR to do training one time. And this is a couple of companies ago, but we walked up to the front lady and self held up a sign that said, like, We're an active shooter or something. So to keep it silent, just to kind of get the drill going. So there was like, they went on the intercom, did a code that went to everyone's phones, and we just started walking through the building. And if someone didn't close the door, we would put a stick it a sticky note on their head that said, dead. And we had people that followed the drill, but I just remember this one lady sticking her head head out the door. Is this real? And we were like, dang. Dead? And yeah, they didn't ask us to do that again. But uh,

Kyle Roed: 38:44

hey, at least you were taking like paintball guns.

Patrick Concilus: 38:48

That we talked about it? Yeah, we definitely that'd be so rewarding. It would be so fantastic. No, it's awesome college or something. You know, like, I want to throw I wanted to throw some like flashbangs or smoke grenade just really get it going. And on top of it, because you gotta you got to move. You got to think quick. You don't have time to think about the policy of the process.

Unknown: 39:14

Shooter Please let me look this up in our HR. standard operating procedure manual.

Patrick Concilus: 39:20

Well, they knew to close the door, the lady that stuck her head out to ask if it was real, like I'm sorry, you're dead. You're done. I'll never forget that.

Kyle Roed: 39:30

I haven't had the joy of brandishing a a fake firearm in a in an active shooter training, but

Patrick Concilus: 39:37

I'll try it sometime.

Kyle Roed: 39:38

Yeah, I'm gonna put that on my HR bucket list. That's something that just made the list. I haven't done that one. I want to touch on one last topic and I think you guys are the perfect guests to help me broach the subject. So by the at the time that we're recording this right now we're in the middle of one of the what I'm sure is going to be some of the Best presidential debates that you've ever seen in your lifetime with with, you know, well articulated, I'm sure there's not going to be any yelling or incoherent babbling or bumbling around. It's going to be great. So So how are how are you guys dealing with politics in the workplace? What kind of crazy experiences have you had related to people who disagree with each other's views.

Unknown: 40:26

I know once upon a time, I worked at a company where the president of the company around election time kept sending emails about not telling you who he thought you should vote for, but how we would benefit the company. Basically, this person is doing this and that's going and they support this, and they would do that. But also, one of the very first times in my career, I delivered a harassment training. I got the question about being and it happened to be around election time about being harassed because of your your politics. And, you know, this was early 2000 timeframe. And politics isn't a protected class. And you know, why don't you try communicating with us and communicate with personal I know, you're not comfortable the conversation, but I'm always picked on and discriminated against, they don't invite me to, you know, social gatherings. Nothing I can

Patrick Concilus: 41:19

do there. We've had a few stories about, you know, people getting upset with someone wearing like, a magga hat on the zoom call. And it wasn't there a company that they wanted, the owner wanted everyone to wear mega face masks.

Unknown: 41:33

Yeah, there was a restaurant I think was in South Carolina.

Kyle Roed: 41:36

Yeah. I mean, I, I live in Iowa. So they'll come caucus time. It's like, it's, it's the seventh circle of hell. Every time you turn on the TV channel, there, it's 95% political junk, and it's all just, it truly is junk. It's a code Brown, for sure. But But yeah, you know, we've we've had that where it's just, like, keep it out of the workplace guy. I mean, and I'm one of those that, like, I have strongly held beliefs, but I don't go out there and broadcast them to everybody in you know, and start to like, advocate for a political party or a candidate it work. You know, save that for your social circles, don't Don't, don't go start to argue with Gary in the hall, because he's wearing a, you know, Biden t shirt or, you know, Susie's wearing a mega hat. You know, agree to disagree. I just I'm, I feel like it's it's ever present in the workplace. But I do think one of the, one of the challenges is, it's, it's really hard to separate it from some of the social issues that we're facing. You know, and certainly, yes, yeah. I mean, some of the issues that are that are happening right now, it's, you can't really talk about one without talking about the other in some cases, and some people that is, that's their truth, right, you know, they've they've dealt with a political system that hasn't supported them. From an HR perspective, it's a really fine line between saying, you know, don't talk about this. And then in the same breath, saying, but, you know, we should really have an open space for safe conversations.

Unknown: 43:18

Well, it's also with the National Labor Relations Board, you know, they can turn it into a situation that that, hey, this is protected speech, I think that candidate a is going to be the best for our employment circumstances. And, you know, I just want all my co workers to know that and now you've got an NLRB situation and in other as HR, once again, it's another situation you're going to be put in a no win situation, and politics is really high on that level of things. Situations we're gonna have to deal with, there's, there's not a win for anybody, not for the company, not for an individual nothing just, you know, learn, learn to agree that would disagree, to disagree. But now this, I think that, you know, this will support worker does better and things like that. So now it's a protected

Warren Workman: 44:09

action, and you can't do anything about it.

Kyle Roed: 44:11

Right? It's like Facebook posts, right? Oh, gosh, I can't remember the ruling, but it's the it's the the guy who like goes on Facebook and like totally blasts his manager and makes all sorts of baseless, like, you know, borderline slanderous comments about the manager and they terminated the guy and then the NLRB comes back and says, No, that was Protected Concerted Activity because it was

Unknown: 44:35

aggress friends on Facebook. are his co workers. Yep. There was a there was a ruling recently I read about I'm a nerd in terms of I like reading those rulings and things like that. But there was one that came out very recently about you know, because he has so many friends from work on his Facebook page, where it basically everything he said was protected in lrB concerted effort speech.

Kyle Roed: 45:00

There was one of them where the guy was literally talking smack about, like his family. And they said, You know what, that's okay. It's Protected Concerted Activity, he can call his mother a beep. Okay, it's it's protected concern. And I look at that, and I'm like, okay, we have lost sanity in this. In this ruling. This doesn't make sense. HR is a fun, and terrible and weird, all at the same time.

Warren Workman: 45:29

And that's why you love it. Yeah, I

Kyle Roed: 45:31

wouldn't change it for the for the world. It's great what you guys are doing, you know, I love the podcast and the fact that we can have a little bit of fun and laugh at our experiences and continue to build a community of people who are in the same code brown together. So I really appreciate you guys doing the podcast and really putting it out there and you know, really appreciate the the connection we were able to make. So keep up the great work, guys.

Patrick Concilus: 45:57

Yeah, thank you. We got we got to band together and get those mops. Well, I appreciate the time. We'll end it there.

Kyle Roed: 46:04

Great conversation, guys. Thanks. Yep. All right. That does it for the rebel HR podcast. big thank you to our guests. Follow us on Facebook at rebel HR podcast, Twitter, at rebel HR guy, or see our website at rebel Human Resources calm views and opinions expressed by rebel in our podcast Are those the author's position

Jude Roed: 46:38

maybe