Episode 21: Q&A with Patrick Moran and Molly Burdess

Molly Burdess: 0:00

What I found, I used to have a lot of these complaints and it just came down to like a transparency issue and a knowledge. So every time somebody left, I either met with them in person or sent them a letter explaining exactly what they could expect explaining exactly what our policy was. And I have not had that issue since.

Kyle Roed: 0:21

This is the rebel HR podcast. If you're a professional looking for innovative, thought provoking information in the world of human resources, this is the right podcast for you. listeners, I'm excited for today's show. We have our awesome co host, Patrick Moran and Molly badass, they are joining us today. And we're gonna do something a little bit different. We're gonna be doing a Q and A session. So I know that there are many burning questions out there. And I want to make sure that we make Patrick and Molly uncomfortable and put them on the spot. So Patrick, Molly, welcome back.

Unknown: 1:02

Glad to be here.

Patrick Moran: 1:04

Thanks, Kyle. I'm so happy that I'm still at work. I having a beer like you too. Oh, it's so good.

Kyle Roed: 1:11

I may or may not have cracked a beer. Five minutes before I hit record. volley. I just I it sounds like you had a great day. So hopefully, we came out of a

Molly Burdess: 1:22

four hour strategy session. So I needed it.

Kyle Roed: 1:27

The good news is you've changed the world through those four hours, and you've got everything figured out. Right?

Unknown: 1:32

Yeah, absolutely.

Kyle Roed: 1:37

I love it. I love it so much. All right. So we have been collecting questions here. From a few of our listeners, there's a couple of general questions that I would like to ask. And I think we'll just have kind of a a conversation about some home. How's that sound?

Unknown: 1:55

Sounds good.

Molly Burdess: 1:56

Do it be nice.

Unknown: 1:59

All right. So

Kyle Roed: 2:00

let's, let's start off with a few interesting scenarios. So in some of these questions are going to be from HR people, some of them are from people who are just wondering about HR in general. So one of the common themes and questions is related to background checks. And you know, is it is it legal to do a background check? When should I be nervous about a background check? So I think the first question I'd like to ask, maybe I'll start with you, Patrick, is tell me about what you would recommend for a background check process. And when do you think it's appropriate.

Patrick Moran: 2:40

We screen for every job that's just been part of our practice. And mainly we try to screen out for we look for people that have histories of mainly violence, we utilize a screening service, which is really good out of Utah, I don't know if I can say the name. And they're not paying us to promote them. So if anybody's interested, they can reach out to me directly, and I can hook them up. But there are certified screening service, they do all the federal and state regulations, and we have employees nationwide throughout the country. So it works out really well. And there's a general on federal screen and it's a they do address, check on it as well, which is kind of good to know, when you're hiring sales reps, if they're job hoppers or flight risks, if they're kind of transit type people where they like to move every two years, doesn't quite work with our sales reps, because we want them to be established in the territories. But they're our car options are really good. For example, if we're hiring people in our accounting department will run credit checks on them. We do run MVR on anybody that's driving some motor vehicle record reports. So our policy is if you have an O wi in the last five years or two oh W is ever in your lifetime, we don't hire. And they have to have a pretty decent driving record. A few speeding tickets, I think three within the last four years is kind of like our line that we draw that's borderline whether we hire you or not. And other than that, it's pretty basic when it comes to general production roles or order entry, customer service type roles. I think it's a good practice to have company wide and not just target specific groups. And the only reason I say that is if you're targeting just specific groups, you could have a discriminatory issue. And that could affect your company in an adverse way. If it ever comes in with like unfair hiring practices, or that sort of thing. That's why we do it to everybody. So that's just kind of our process and maybe my suggestions regarding background checks. Molly, do

Kyle Roed: 4:47

you guys do background checks?

Molly Burdess: 4:49

We do and I've worked in organizations that also have not in the past, but we do we work with the public. We have an industry that has a lot of fraud. So yes, we run Background checks and primarily are looking for theft, and then also some violent stuff as well.

Kyle Roed: 5:07

So what do you consider? You know, it's it's very broad, but if I am an applicant, what should I be nervous about? If I have something in my background?

Molly Burdess: 5:18

For me, it's honestly theft and repeat offenses. That's my biggest thing we do, or I do not have a hard, fast policy, if you have this, you are excluded from employment. I really look at it individually. What's the gap? What are you telling me about this? Are you honest with me about it? That's that's kind of how I judge.

Patrick Moran: 5:45

I'm that same boat, it's got to be to us, it's got to be case by case. Yes, the repeat offenders. The theft, of course, is a big one. When you're looking at somebody who really has maybe changed their life, how long was it, they really need that second chance, because what comes into play is, what if somebody that just had a string of bad luck was in the wrong place at the wrong time? No, all sudden, that prevents them from ever getting a job. because more and more companies offer background checks, you really have to look at the situation and has this person really come out of this, on the other hand, on the other end, and is practicing good behaviors. Because I feel like you know, my belief, and I'm sure you too, as well, everybody needs a second chance. But they're really showing that they're putting in that effort, and have been, let's just say rehabilitated. I know that's not the proper term, because we're not talking about people that are in the system, technically, but those are the types of things that I would say I focus on.

Molly Burdess: 6:44

And where are they putting the blame? Or they can't have that accountability? That's a big one to me as well.

Patrick Moran: 6:51

Right? Right, when they're up front with us. Before we even, you know, whenever we do an offer, it's always pending brat background check and drug screen if they're honest with us, that says a lot about person's character.

Molly Burdess: 7:04

Let me tell you some of the stories that I have heard digging into some of these background checks.

Kyle Roed: 7:14

Are you gonna tell us now I'm sitting here like,

Molly Burdess: 7:16

thinking about it? I'm like, No, no, I'm gonna go down that route.

Kyle Roed: 7:20

All right, well, Hey, I got I got one for you. So I, I think you guys are spot on. And, you know, there's a couple key points, key takeaways for HR folks listening first one, Patrick's comment on consistency. So you can't just decide I just want a background check this one random person, because I feel like I should, you know, there's a word for that. And it's called discriminatory hiring practices. So don't do that. That's not recommended. The other thing that I recommend if somebody is going to do a background check is use a third party. And the reason for this is there's a myriad of rules and regulations out there. If you just go on to an Iowa courts online, or your state courts online and looking at public record, a lot of times they're incomplete. They a lot of times will show charges, not convictions, which is not what you want to look at. And I've got a I've got a story about that. So one of the critical things about using a third party is also the fact that there is something called appeal, right? So if somebody gets a bad background check, then they can they can fight it or appeal it. So I in a one of my former employers, we did a background check process as well. We had an adjudication matrix, we we followed the protocol. And one of the background checks came back. And the charges included a number of different things. But the probably the most shocking was somebody who was convicted of prostitution in Texas. And if you had met this woman, you would not have assumed that she even knew what the word prostitution meant. It was relatively shocking charge, but it was enough to deny the job. So the third party followed the appeal process and sent her her appeal rights. She appealed that the fact of the matter was, she had never even been to Texas, what it was was somebody stole her identity, used her social security number. And that's what she gave to the police when she was caught in a prostitution sting. So that on her record, would have prevented her from working for me, had I not used a third party, the good news, it's a positive ending to the story. We did except that appeal of course, and we hired her for the for the role. And unfortunately, she had some identity theft things to clean up on the back end. But if you're going to be doing background checks, you have to be consistent. And I strongly recommend to third party, whoever that may be. All right. Next Next question that came in actually we had a couple questions along this line, which is really quite concerning. It was about People touching others at work. And I would say the general question that came in was around a boss. And the question is, how do I tell if a boss is being friendly by rubbing my shoulder or touching my back when they're talking to me versus creepy? Molly,

Molly Burdess: 10:25

it really shouldn't matter. I'm in a good HR person would see that and have that conversation. It's really interesting. As a woman, you guys can't relate. But I actually have a couple of pictures where like, we were out with leadership team doing something, I was the only woman and of course, that person that nobody on my team, but personally or to rain or something like that, of course, they have their hands on my shoulders, like you guys. Like, really? So as a woman, it's just not okay, in any regard. You know, the problem is I, from what I've learned, some things are not intentional. And of course, if you bring it to their attention right away, it's typically they're so embarrassed, they feel so bad. And it's a learning lesson. If you don't address it, because you think it's not crossing a line, that's, you're creating a culture that gets a little bit closer to that line a little bit closer to that line, and then eventually, that line gets crossed. And then you wonder why? Well, you're you weren't creating a culture that you are creating a culture that made that acceptable,

Patrick Moran: 11:40

you gotta do something about it, especially if somebody brings it to your attention, if if it's addressed, they brought it to your attention. That's one thing, but you got to do something about it. And that's where people get scared. I feel like, especially in HR, because sometimes there are people that get into HR that don't like conflict, it's like, hey, well, this is the profession that we're in, and we have to address it and take the emotion out of it. And just call, call it like it is.

Molly Burdess: 12:02

And you also have to put on your leadership team and train your leadership team to know when they should have said something. And they also have to understand the car that I didn't know about it doesn't work. Should you have known about it? That's the question you have to ask them.

Kyle Roed: 12:21

Yeah, and I think to any managers who are listening to this and thinking, well, geez, I just kind of talk, talk with my hands. And that's, you know, I interact with people with my hands. The first thing I would say is, it's 2020. So don't use your hands for anything except for washing at this point. But But not everybody is comfortable with how you are comfortable communicating, right? And so the initial and immediate approach towards communication should be, how do I make other people comfortable? That's really the right way to approach it. So if using your hands and being kind of, you know, touchy feely, is how you like to interact. Don't do it, because some people don't like that. It's I think it's just as simple as that.

Molly Burdess: 13:05

Yes. And my story earlier is, as a woman, it happens more than I should,

Unknown: 13:10

period.

Kyle Roed: 13:12

Next question. So there, there are a myriad of questions that have have been out there or comments that have been out there about job hopping, and the perception of, quote, job hoppers. And there's been some Twitter debates back and forth, a lot of times with HR professionals on the ramifications of switching jobs frequently. So I'll start with you, Patrick. What is your perspective on somebody switching jobs, you know, multiple times with relatively short tenure? And what, you know, how do you how do you view that as you're looking at a candidate?

Patrick Moran: 13:56

first glimpse at a resume, I don't like it. That doesn't mean to throw the resume away. I'm gonna say to myself, okay, how long have they been in each position? And what are the companies? Are they reputable companies are the companies that I've been made aware of that just are terrible to work at? They don't have the greatest culture. You dig some stuff out of that on a resume when you know, the community and you know, the organization's what's the job? Is it for example, we're talking HR, is it every three years it's an HR coordinator to an HR coordinator to an HR coordinator, or is there an actual progression and elevation of your career path and your responsibility? I think that's more important, and that tells a little bit more of a story. And what I like about resumes is I want the resume to tell me a story. Because everybody has one. Some people are just intriguing on a resume and even though the resume doesn't look great, maybe they just were in a you know, series of bad luck. Maybe they were in positions where friends kept repeating Getting them to go work with them at other locations, which to me is a red flag because that doesn't always mean that's a great place to work. You know, the grass may be greener on the other side, because they're gonna fill you with, you know, all sorts of rainbows and unicorns that, you know their places the best to work at. But once they get there after a year and a half, maybe they don't like it. So you really got to dig into what that story looks like, and the career progression. It's very normal nowadays, to see somebody in a job or in a company for five years. I think it's unfortunate. But you know, everybody's got a story. Yeah, I

Molly Burdess: 15:36

completely agree with that. How I handle it. I just in my career, I probably didn't do this. But as I go, I just call it for what it is. I asked them very clearly, like I see you been jumping jobs, tell me about it. And then I always ask this my favorite way to start out any interview, but especially with the is tell me what you're looking for. Tell me what you need to be happy for next role. Before I ask any questions before I even tell them about the job. That way, they can't feed me with just what I want to hear after they know a little bit more. That helped me a lot.

Patrick Moran: 16:15

Oh, I like that approach before you even go into your spiel. I like

Molly Burdess: 16:21

yeah, it's, it's very eye opening.

Kyle Roed: 16:25

Yeah, I just think everybody's got their own story. And as human resources professionals, we need to be open minded to what those stories might be. The only comment that I would say is for anybody listening to this, this thinking, Oh, I might need to, you know, be looking for a job, and I've got all these job hops, you know, it does have to be for the right reason. You can't just continue to move from job to job to job to job because you want the perfect job because the perfect job doesn't exist. You know, for me, that could be a little bit of a red flag of somebody who maybe doesn't have the resilience that I might need. It's different if you're moving from job to job because of a layoff or a toxic work environment or a terrible boss. I mean, those those things are, in my mind legitimate. But that would be the only comment I would make on job hoppers. I think the other comment there is that well, us in HR probably feel that way. There is a really strong stigma for hiring managers to feel that way as well. And so in HR, we have a little bit of a job to do to educate some of those hiring managers that there are legitimate reasons why people might change jobs more frequently than five years. Right. That's on us.

Molly Burdess: 17:54

Kyle, what, what recommendation would you give for those people that do have some history of job hopping on their resume? Or how would How would you What advice would you give them when they're applying for a job?

Kyle Roed: 18:09

Yeah, honesty, I think that integrity is the most critical factor there in across all of these candidate questions. So whether it's a background check, and being honest about you know, I did this in the, in my past, and here's how I changed my behavior. And it's, it was a learning moment when I was younger, too, you know, I, I switched jobs three times in the last four years. Because I worked at a toxic work environment and did not see resolution, even though I followed appropriate channels to fix it, or got laid off. You know, what, whatever that is, I think integrity is the most critical factor. I think the biggest risk, though, for people with a frequent job movement issue in the resume is the fact that you may not even get the opportunity to talk to somebody, because the applicant tracking system may either a screen you out through AI screening, sometimes the AI's Can, can actually screen for that and eliminate candidates for that. Or you have a recruiter who thinks that job hopping is one of those immediate disqualifiers. So in that case, if you're not, if you're putting out resumes, and you're not getting a response, my recommendation is actually to try to skip the applicant tracking system and go direct to company, employees in the companies that you're interested in, start to network, build connections. There's this tool called LinkedIn that can basically give you everybody at the company that's socially active on social media, and just start to start to build relationships. See if you can get your resume into the hands of a person in HR recruiting through other means. That would be my tip.

Patrick Moran: 19:58

Oh, that's a really good point because A lot of times you'll get HR people newer in their career, going into organizations where they're being trained by older HR professionals, maybe HR professionals that are very seasoned, narrow teaching these younger professionals that are new into the workforce, screen out the job hoppers, we don't even want them. So they don't even know,

Kyle Roed: 20:21

hey, I'm gonna, I'm gonna jump in there. I'm gonna say it's not an age thing. It's a it's an education thing?

Molly Burdess: 20:28

Well, it's not. And I'm going to jump in further, because I don't think for me personally, I get over 5000 applications a year. I don't have time to go through each of those. So of course, I'm going to weed out those individuals first.

Patrick Moran: 20:46

Well, I mean, you know, the point is, people just somehow they get taught that it's okay to screen to screen out job hoppers. And you have to look at it from all perspectives. And not just because your boss says, so don't let that be your normal way of screening is my point.

Kyle Roed: 21:04

So so I think that's a great point. And I think we should take that conversation forward a little bit. So when I was earlier in my career, and I was still very much learning what it was to be an HR, I had that exact practice taught to me as one of the first things to do in recruiting weed out the job hoppers. I mean, that's what they told me. And they said that, yeah, these, you know, these individuals will not fit here, because we want long term employees. That was the belief that was the hypothesis. But that hypothesis, the longer I've been an HR, for me is faulty. That's a theory that's been disproven. So you know, we do need to be open minded, and we need to evolve, I would tell you, the other thing is that HR has changed so much, if you are an HR, and you haven't really focused on learning, development, and sharpening your ax to be prepared for 2021 and beyond, you're gonna start to struggle. I mean, I the here's a quote from one of my past mentors in HR. And I've probably told you to this before, we are in HR and, quote, We are equal opportunity, because we hate everybody the same. Unquote.

Unknown: 22:28

Nice,

Kyle Roed: 22:29

but but that it's, but that was the, that was the training, right? And it goes back to HR as a traffic cop. versus being a change agent and building a culture.

Molly Burdess: 22:44

I found the, the job hoppers that I will more consider and that typically seem to just not have found their right fit are the ones that job hopped, but had a job to hop to, rather than I'm going to quit no notice. job lined up, didn't find a job for two months, start a new job and then did it again, that's kind of how I've learned to differentiate the ones that I think would be a good fit, and maybe just haven't found the right home yet.

Kyle Roed: 23:14

Yeah, I think it's it's a, it's a fine line. Because if somebody continuously leaves a job, because they want to make one or $2,000 more, for me, the motivation is off. If anybody's doing something purely for a financial reason, then I have some concerns about their decision making. Because what I would argue for somebody who thinks, oh, that grass is really green at that company, and, you know, they're going to give me a$2,000 raise, and, you know, it just seems like like really great. In my experience, if you look back, the the individuals who actually go up on a career trajectory up a ladder, typically are the ones that put in the time, at least in my industry. So a lot of times, I've actually seen within a five year span at one company, I was at one company I interviewed somebody for a job. And then it my new company, I five years later, I saw that person who had changed jobs three times was applying for the exact same position at my new company. And it's just it's kind of just like a cyclical true job hopping where you're literally hopping from you know, job a job if your pure motivation is salary, then I would question Why. Why are you changing jobs? For me? My question is, are you in the wrong career? Because you should be able to find some level of happiness even if not everything's perfect at your job. I don't

Patrick Moran: 24:46

question their character as well and not to be you know, a jerk about it. But if you're all about the money, and that's it, and you're not gonna put anything else any hard any emotion put in the time and effort into your job in your organization. Not only are you working for me, that's my personal opinion on it.

Kyle Roed: 25:06

Boom, Patrick with a hammer.

Patrick Moran: 25:10

day I'm still at work. I'm a little irritated.

Kyle Roed: 25:18

That's good. That's That's all right, Patrick, you have one on us tonight. All right, next question here. So we feel like I can't get through a podcast in 2020 without talking about COVID-19. So one of the topics that has come up has been the question of, can an HR person perform their job effectively working from home? Patrick, what do you think?

Patrick Moran: 25:46

No, I don't think so. I at times, it may work. But in the grand scheme of things, the scope of what we do, you have to be able to be present with the employees. And I know a lot of us have employees throughout the country. And that's a little different. But especially when you're with your leaders, you know, seeing the the nonverbal cues, what being able to, let's say, walk around your building or your facility, you can catch a lot of things just by walking around and see what's going on, you can catch the vibe of what's happening on the floor. And when you're not there, you can't see that. And I think that makes it really difficult to talk about what's going on in the business, if you're not there in business. Um, it's just having that pulse on everything in your organization. And that's what we do. So I think it's extremely difficult. I, I'm okay, working from home once in a while, I do enjoy it. But I just don't feel like I'm as effective than being in the office.

Molly Burdess: 26:48

I completely agree. I think when we talk about HR and elevating the profession and becoming a strategic business partner, I don't think you can do that from home long term, I think in everything, in addition to what Patrick said, to understand what your associates are going through and feeling and to show up as that strategic business partner, I think you have to be there. And I'm really surprised that Patrick agreed with me, because typically, most people do not agree with me, which is fine. But I think if we really want to elevate our profession and be a strategic, or we have to show up.

Kyle Roed: 27:31

Yeah, I think I might take a contrarian approach here. Oh, that's right, I would. So, you know, I think that HR is essential for the health of the business. And I agree 100%, with Molly's statement that HR has to show up, and HR has to be available. I think a lot of it, though, truly depends on a few factors. I think that it at least in my organization, as an example. My job consists of about 95% of my time, being on a phone or in a meeting with somebody who is not at my physical location. And I do that from wherever I need to, whether I'm in the office, or I'm driving to take my kids to basketball practice. Because my office phone rings to my cell phone, and my you know, my laptop goes with me everywhere and in in this day and age. I think the other comment that I would say is from an international perspective, I also have to be available, so that somebody can call me from Singapore at nine o'clock at night, or somebody can call me at five in the morning from the UK. So there's a timezone pressure there. And so you know, as far as being effective in your job, I think a lot of it depends on the job. I do think though, that HR, if you can't physically be in the workplace, you still have to be connected, you still have to force some of those interactions. And you're quite frankly, not going to be able to do that as well, if you can't physically be in a location. So that's where it gets a little bit more challenging, but that's where I've been able to leverage some tools to help me I've, you know, I back when COVID hit, obviously, I had a critical role to play for the organization. So that turned into instead of chance encounters I had to go out and schedule encounters with the people that I needed in order to stay connected. So I think you can do it. It's it's not the same and it's not easy, but you can get it done. And I think the other the other question is, I guess here's here would be mentioned to YouTube, and feel free to disagree with this. But if you feel like HR has to be present, what are your frontline leaders doing? And what are your managers doing? Are they not keeping you in the loop? Or do you not trust them?

Molly Burdess: 30:17

I think it's more of a culture of thing and a credibility thing, like, as a leader of my organization, I don't feel good about asking my team to be on the front line, work with the public, do whatever they need to do, and I can't show up at my office, I think that's more what it comes down to is a credibility thing and earning their trust and keeping their trusts and maintaining that relationship and really just creating a good culture. In time, this is kind of like a counter arguments in my belief, you know, HR, we also have to set the example. So when you're talking about only health and safety, I think it you can make argument that way as well.

Patrick Moran: 31:08

You know, what I'm noticing with our organization in a lot of other organizations, because of where we're at, with our state of affairs with COVID, people trying to pay attention to their financial health. And when they lose employees, they don't replace, well, that starts a domino effect where our supervisors, especially the frontline, they end up being working supervisors. So their suit so busy, not just moving the work around, they're going through the motions just like everybody else. They're not present in a way where they can recognize maybe something's off with somebody, and I think now is more than ever, a time where we need to be more present with our in our facilities,

Molly Burdess: 31:49

that and I don't think a lot of these supervisors even know how to handle some of these issues. And I'm sure they're going through their own challenges at home. And I've heard it in personally, and I think sometimes a lot of my leaders anyway, that are putting those positions, they have so much confidence, and they don't want to let you down sometimes I think they tell you everything's great. But then when you can actually see it kind of Patrick, to your point earlier and get the vibe you have, you can get a different vibe.

Kyle Roed: 32:22

Yeah, I just think it's different for every organization.

Unknown: 32:26

I,

Kyle Roed: 32:27

I think that my challenge to HR people who feel like they need to be there all the time is look at systems and ways to be more connected, as opposed to focus on putting in the time. I think the other risk there is that if you project that you have to be there, you may be fostering people, or fostering people's belief that if they're not there, that you will have a bad perception of them. I've dealt with that a little bit, especially through COVID, where I've had employees who feel like they've been compelled to be at work, even though we've not mandated it at all. And it's more like a peer pressure thing like well, I thought everybody you know, so I actually, right now, I'm actually sitting at home because I have a family member who had covid symptoms. And I am not going to apologize to my team for staying home in order to protect them. And I think that's really what it comes down to in this environment where I'm doing something for the greater good of my work environments, health and safety. And I don't feel bad about that. And I'm still getting my stuff done.

Molly Burdess: 33:41

Are you telling the team about that your team about it?

Kyle Roed: 33:44

Sure. Yeah, I don't. I mean, I know I don't have to. But, but again, it goes back to for me, it's all about transparency and integrity. So if I'm not sitting in the office, you know, and I'll, I'll be up front and say, Hey, you know, I'm staying home because I may have a potential exposure. I don't want to expose you. And and then being transparent about the last time I always within your vicinity, again, to dispel any concern or fear. So, you know, I just think that's kind of the that's where we're at this year.

Molly Burdess: 34:18

Yeah, I think that's totally valid statement. I think a lot of HR professionals and leaders and what I'm seeing people struggling with a balance between full transparency and not wanting to completely cause chaos and concern amongst employees until they have more information.

Kyle Roed: 34:40

All right, so interesting question here. And I have my opinion, but I'll let you to respond. So somebody is asking the question, okay, I'm sitting at my desk. I'm experiencing blurred vision, clouded thoughts, a headache and trembling hands. I'm relatively new. Yeah, but I So I'm afraid to tell my supervisor, what should I do?

Patrick Moran: 35:08

I mean, you got to speak up, you know, employers have to be flexible during this time. And, you know, we've all everybody from the CDC to Department of Labor and EEOC is saying you got to be flexible with your attendance policies during this time, because we've never dealt with this before. And I don't think people should be, you know, feel that they need to be afraid to speak up, I think, you know, if your employer, the right employer, you'll do the right thing, let that person go home and rest up, get well go to the doctor. Because that's just been a good employer. If you're working in a company where you don't think that employer is going to react that way or be negative to you, then you're probably working in the wrong company.

Molly Burdess: 35:51

Well, it's been a good human to someone struggling, and I would first be concerned about that person's health.

Kyle Roed: 35:58

I mean, I think, here's a common theme that I hear from a lot of employees, it doesn't really there's no correlation between industry or employer. But, you know, a lot of employees are afraid to bring these things up. And I think that that's one silver lining in 2020, is that health and safety have become the priority. And if they're not the priority of your organization, then your priorities are wrong. So if somebody is not feeling well, and even if you're a new employee, you need to let someone know. And as a leader of people, I want to know, so that I can understand is it COVID symptoms? And is there a bigger issue here, as well as potentially somebody might need an accommodation? You know, in this person's case, it sounds like they may have some challenges with, you know, their their work environment, maybe bright lights set off their, their migraine or something along those lines, right. I mean, they're, some of those interactive discussions should occur in a much less threatening environment than having to go sit down in an office with HR, you know, I mean, some of this stuff should happen between an employee and their supervisor to the comfort level that they're comfortable with. But, you know, at the end of the day, HR doesn't have to be involved in all this stuff. If you just don't feel well just just tell your leader, if they're a good leader, they'll let you go home, and they'll try to figure out a way to make you feel better.

Molly Burdess: 37:33

But HR does have to help train those leaders to be able to have those conversations not only in a legal way, but also a way that supports your culture.

Kyle Roed: 37:44

Yeah, but is that really going to happen?

Molly Burdess: 37:47

I mean, I want to say so every year, I put my leaders through a bunch of scenarios of like real world, what could happen and we solved one, and then we talk through it, I find it to be very valuable for my team.

Patrick Moran: 38:04

You know, one thing for listeners out there, that's a good, you know, tip to take with you back to your organization. It goes back to your relationship that you have with all your supervisors and managers, we all have those people where we just cringe when they walk past us in the hall or we just all gosh, they're at my doorstep. Again, your number one job in HR, find a way to partner with every leader in every supervisor, because then when you go to them with these hard recommendations and suggestions when we're talking about employees health right now, it's easier to get that buy in because they trust you. They listen to you more. It all starts with building and cultivating and nurturing those relationships with the leaders, even if we're not friends with them, even if we don't like them, per se. It start it's got to start somewhere to get the buy in later. It's got to start now.

Kyle Roed: 39:00

Yeah, but here's my thing. So let's say I'm a new leader. And I haven't been through Molly's wonderful training. Good free, Molly for doing that. And somebody comes to me and says, I don't feel well. As a leader, I'm not gonna think Oh, yeah. Okay, so the ad triple A interactive process. workflow looks like this. And I follow this and do this. And, you know, at the end of the day, I think it comes back to the word that you use Molly, which is culture, and it's a culture of just being an empathetic person. If somebody doesn't feel well understand what's going on. Make sure that they're comfortable. And then help them help them achieve their comfort goals. Write that

Molly Burdess: 39:44

and then call me an HR.

Kyle Roed: 39:47

You want to be involved in all those.

Molly Burdess: 39:49

I want to know about them, but I'm in a small enough organization that I can

Unknown: 39:53

do that. That way I have a record of it.

Kyle Roed: 39:57

So you want to record everybody with a headache

Molly Burdess: 40:00

No, I see your point. But if it's something where like our leader needs, if it's something that you were you were talking about, like a work accommodation, and it could be the death of

Unknown: 40:09

Siena? Yes, I want to know about that.

Kyle Roed: 40:12

I don't disagree. I think my point is that accommodations take all shapes and sizes. And they occur all the time, without HR having to be involved. So my argument would be make it make a culture of accommodating others and a culture of empathy, and helping others.

Unknown: 40:31

Kyle Roed for present.

Kyle Roed: 40:34

I do not want that job. Does anybody want that job? No. Besides job button and Donald Trump,

Patrick Moran: 40:42

you're wrong 101% of the time.

Kyle Roed: 40:45

That's kind of HR, right? I think HR, you know, just HR in general. It's like perfect training for being president. Because half of the people hate what you do. And the only difference is half the people don't love it. I like arguing with you, Molly, this is fun.

Unknown: 41:00

I've been waiting for this.

Kyle Roed: 41:04

Here's a good one is my former employer screwing me out of money, not been able to locate our handbook. And but I'm almost certain that we do not have a written policy regarding PTO upon termination of employment. So this person got laid off. And the reason given was position was eliminated. For whatever reason, there was a severance package, but they only offered unused and available PTO for the severance amount in order to sign the severance document is that is that person being screwed?

Molly Burdess: 41:40

What I found, I used to have a lot of these complaints and it just came down to like a transparency issue and a knowledge. So every time somebody left, I either met with them in person or sent them a letter explaining exactly what they could expect explaining exactly what our policy was. And I have not had that issue sense. I don't know exactly what the details of this situation was. But from an HR perspective, that would be my advice to you.

Patrick Moran: 42:09

Yeah, I don't think you need to. I don't think company should have to hide policies, or even their compensation program, you should no company should be transparent about all that type of information to the employees because the employees are, you know, working for you. Now, vacation and PTO there's no law that we have to require that. But if there's a policy in place, we have to, you know, adhere to it. And it's coming back to this whole education piece. Are we educating the employees from day one? How are we presenting the information to the managers know, are they educated on it? We deal with this all the time. And it just depends on the situation if it aligns with our policies.

Kyle Roed: 42:52

Now, it's a great point. I think the only comment that I would add there, I think you both summed it up well, is the fact that some states do require a specific amount of vacation time. It's kind of been a more common trend in recent years. So there may be a state law, that would be one area to check. It should be spelled out in the handbook. But one of the challenges is, if it's not spelled out in the handbook, it's not federally regulated. So the employer does have the right to not pay out what they would call unused ptl. But they should follow whatever their past practice has been. The other thing I would say is if you're getting into a severance or a reduction in force, type of situation. You should always consult with an outside counsel, if you have any specific questions about any sort of severance package you're signing. That is just good, intelligent people practices. So don't sign anything until you know what you're signing. Hey, Kyle, before

Molly Burdess: 43:59

we head off, I got to chat with you about something. Okay, so obviously, you know, I am the current president of Cedar Valley Sherm right, which is a local HR group consisting of approximately 200 HR professionals. You're asking me, you know, our mission is very much to elevate HR. One of the ways we did that this year, is we rolled out an award program, and we are titling that we have titled it elevating HR. And it's really for any HR or business leader who's doing amazing things to that aligns with our mission. Right. So I wanted to let you know that you are a recipient of this award this year.

Kyle Roed: 44:49

Well, thank you. That's, that's awesome. Yeah,

Molly Burdess: 44:52

I have your full nomination. But I just personally want to add that Kyle, you truly We don't just talk the talk, you walk the walk when it comes to elevating our profession and you do a lot of things outside of your normal work hours. You're part of disrupt HR. You're part of the childcare association of Iowa, Boeck rehab, you've started this podcast, you do a lot of work with diversity, equity and inclusion. And I'm so proud to have you in our HR circle, and I am a better person just for knowing you. So you completely deserve this award. So congratulations.

Kyle Roed: 45:31

Wow, that means a lot Molly coming from you. I have a lot of respect for you. And for the Cedar Valley Sherm organization, so sincere. Thank you. My only comment there is that the only reason that I may be able to get things done is because I'm surrounded by awesome people, yourself included. So thank you. Very well received. Thanks. Yeah, thank

Molly Burdess: 45:53

you.

Kyle Roed: 45:56

All right. That does it for the rebel HR podcast. guests. Follow us on Facebook and rebel HR podcast, Twitter, at rebel HR guy. See our website at rebel Human Resources using opinions expressed by podcast

Unknown: 46:25

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