Speaker 1: 0:03

This is the Rebel HR podcast, the podcast about all things innovation in the people's space. I'm Kyle Rode. Let's start the show. Welcome back, rebel HR community. We are going to have some fun today. With us, we have Sheridan Ruth she is a performance coach and we're going to be talking all about the nervous system. Sheridan, thank you so much for joining me today.

Speaker 2: 0:27

Thank you so much, kyle, and I'm really eager and excited to jump into this with everybody.

Speaker 1: 0:33

Well, me too, and this topic for me is absolutely fascinating. I'm so excited to dig into it. The first question that I have for you is what motivated you to get into it? The first question that I have for you is what motivated you to get into performance coaching and focus your work on the nervous system.

Speaker 2: 0:51

You know, a large part of it now that I really think back was oh God. This might make some of you happy or sad, I'm not sure, but when I started working I was a teenager and I was already filled with all of my own insecurities. I lost my hair when I was seven years old and that was really hard on me, but I was a teenager but I was really smart and I was really good at what I was doing. You know, I was like one of those people that if you gave me a job, I would just go and excel with it, just go and excel with it.

Speaker 2: 1:29

But somehow I kept ending up with these bosses that were just not good to me and they, they would criticize me or they would put me in the wrong role or they would get upset when I would ask for, you know, something like you know, we have, we'd have breaks and I would want my appropriate breaks that I'm entitled to, and it was actually just this really toxic, um, kind of like push, push, push, keep, go, go, go, and I was like you know, we could, we could do this work without, um, you know, um, being so exhausted, or we could do this better, and that seemed to kind of threaten them, especially because I was really young and I quickly came to the resolution that I just couldn't be employed and people said to me you know, you're too opinionated. Or I actually had people say to me you're too smart for this, so I need to, we need to put you somewhere else, because you can't be smarter than your boss, or or you're too big, smarter than your boss, or you're too big, like those words, like you're too big, your energy is too big, so we need to put you in this place because it like outshines your colleague. And then I ended up working in finance, like we spoke about, and it was really just like that toxic New York commercial real estate finance, go, go, go. And I couldn't deal with it and so I went like the full swing the other way, ended up in yoga therapy and somehow I've kind of found my way back to a bit of a middle ground.

Speaker 2: 2:58

But honestly, toxic work environments.

Speaker 1: 3:05

For all of us that have ever been told you're too much, I feel, seen right now.

Speaker 2: 3:10

Right yeah.

Speaker 1: 3:13

Yeah, what are you supposed to do with that? What do you do with that feedback? When someone says, hey, you're just too much, your energy is too big, right, that that's a, that's a pretty uh worthless, uh comment that you really can't do anything with, right? So, um. So kudos to you, I think, for for jumping into um the world of what I would call like like helping others right and trying to trying to help correct uh, the experience that you had and I and I know that you've, you know you've been working on this here and and kind of cultivating this practice over the years. I'm curious, as you started working with clients and as you've been a performance coach, what are some, some common things that you see that that we should be mindful of in our workplaces?

Speaker 2: 4:09

I think at the end of the day it comes back to, I have to say, nervous system dysregulation, and I'll explain a little bit what that means in a second. But the reason that somebody said to me that I was too much was because I generated inside of them a discomfort and they didn't know how to deal with it. So they kind of saw me as a threat to their safety, to their sense of self, to their sense of confidence or their capacity or even just their knowledge. You know, if I look at it from my my boss at the time, he was like, okay, well, here she is, she's asking for these things that I can't give her, and so that makes my body feel really unsafe. And so what do I do? I go into the fight mode and I attack.

Speaker 2: 5:00

And I think back to that and I think, well, if that man would have had an ability or a strategy or a tool to be able to recognize inside of himself. Okay, I have just hired somebody who is, who is, without sounding arrogant, smarter than I anticipated, and let's just go with bigger or too much. She's just bigger than I anticipated, and I'm finding it a challenge for my leadership. Okay, let me, let me like ground. Let me just be with that for a second in my body. Let me not throw that out onto her, and let me find enough space inside of my body where I can respond to this in a creative and an innovative way and start looking at maybe what I, what I need to do with this individual.

Speaker 2: 5:51

Then we both would have avoided something that was probably very painful for us.

Speaker 2: 5:55

I don't think that that was very pleasant for him to say those things to me or to treat me in that way, and it certainly did not work very well for the business.

Speaker 2: 6:12

And so, at the end of the day, it's that dysregulation where our body starts to perceive that we're all separate from each other and that we all need to go up against each other to achieve something. Or I need to attack you or attack myself, or avoid that difficult conversation, or avoid that individual completely, or I go into a place of like real hopelessness where I feel like I can't deal with it. I think the biggest, the bigger problem, is that we're trying to navigate the world in a beautiful, beautiful way, because we're all here, because we actually we do care, we do want something good, but our bodies perceive it differently, and until we learn to recognize what's going on in the body, the story that it has about what's happening, and then separate from it enough that we can influence the body, calm it down and then respond from our heart or our creativity or our values, it's just going to be really difficult to change the workplace.

Speaker 1: 7:15

Absolutely, you know. I think putting in that context is really powerful for a couple of reasons. Number one, I think you know, I think many of us have either been in that situation ourselves or interacted with a manager who is struggling, to quote, handle an employee, right, you know, and putting it in the context of, like, nervous system dysregulation, it actually gives you a level of kind of empathy with that individual that they just don't know, don't have the tools or the capacity to understand what's happening and probably won't handle it correctly or appropriately if they aren't actively aware of it. Right, you know, and and I think about when, I think about a bunch of scenarios, when you describe that where I've had, you know, I've, I've had these words used where, like, the word you use was somebody's too much, or the words I've heard is somebody's not a fit, or somebody's too disruptive, or, you know, somebody's just not here's the term for you Somebody's just not a company man, right, you know, there's, there's all of these kinds of these, these coded words that people use, uh, when this is happening.

Speaker 1: 8:29

But putting it in the context of, well, actually what's happening is your nervous system is dysregulated and you're uncomfortable for some reason, is a very different conversation, right. So, um, so, for somebody that's been through this and you've you've had this lived experience and then you've also gone and kind of done the work on what it takes to go from dysregulation to regulation within your nervous system, what guidance would you give us, as we are either observing this in ourselves or observing this in our leadership teams? How can we, how can we kind of help people move through this into something that's actually beneficial?

Speaker 2: 9:06

Yeah, that's a great question. The first thing we need to do is we need to understand what the nervous system is, then we need to recognize our tendencies of dysregulation, then we need to learn how to regulate, and then we can kind of build on it and use other tools to be like oh, how do I get more creative? What does my communication look like? Let's just focus on the basic ones and I'll go over them very high level. And what I might do, carl, is I'll send you a link you can share with everyone. I have a PDF that goes into this in much more detail and, especially if everyone's visual, they can kind of like follow along with it. Perfect, uh.

Speaker 2: 9:46

So first thing we need to know is what is our nervous system? So right now, what we're speaking about is the system of nerves that is autonomic, that runs through your body and communicates between the brain and the body. So it's so. It's a system of nerves that runs from the brainstem. It goes all the way back down, it runs to our organs. It's the way that your body can tell if it's hungry. It sends information up and down, tells if it's hungry, it can tell us if there's threat around, and its main job is to do two things Number one keep you safe, so keep you not dying. Not even just keep you safe, just prevent you from dying. And number two save energy, just in case you need it, in case there's a threat later. That is all it cares about. Doesn't care if you're fulfilled, doesn't care if you're happy, doesn't care if you're doing a good job at work. Am I not dead? Am I expending the least amount of energy in doing so? So it's always communicating and it's the foundational way you experience life. Every single thought, sensation and emotion, or even the way that you kind of perceive and like not even think about things, but the way that they are shaped and you receive them, is created by your nervous system. Okay, and that's the reason why one event can happen and six people can look at it in six different ways, or even 12 different ways, because everyone can look at it from at least one or two perspectives. And so when we influence and understand the nervous system, we change the way that we experience our entire life.

Speaker 2: 11:34

Now, the nervous system gets dysregulated when it perceives that there is a threat to its resources, its safety, its identity, um, its level of respect, if, particularly in a workplace, uh, we need to be respected, because if we're not respected, people won't lead us, and if we people don't lead us and there's a problem when we can't save people from the problem because they didn't lead us.

Speaker 2: 12:01

You know what I mean Entity, threat to our respect, resources, money, it can even just like get perceive, a threat to something uncomfortable in the body. So if we go back to that, if we go back to like a not a company man right, well, you, being not a company man, might create inside of me. It might actually remind me of that one time that I got really excited about this is me being hypothetical, but I got really excited about somebody being in my life and then they left and that reminded me of the time that my mom left, and now my abandonment wound is triggered at work. I say there's just something not right about them. They're not a fit, they don't, they're not loyal, but really it's just that they have mannerisms that remind me of something that my ex did or something, but you can't see that because it's so subtle. And so, yeah, are you following so far or do you have any questions about that?

Speaker 1: 13:08

Yeah, so I think so, I think it's fascinating to. I think the biggest takeaway, I think, in the nervous system kind of research is, um, so often we like we judge this experience right, like it's like, oh, this person's you know overreacting or you know, but but the reality is the nervous system, it's, it's it's happening for a really, really good reason. It's happening because it's it saves our species from perishing, right, like it literally like kept you from dying and saved energy. Like that's what we needed back when we were, you know, foraging and nomadic, you know, beings. Yeah, now it doesn't necessarily work in the age of, you know, digital technology and corporate workplaces, so so it's it's, you know, I think honoring that and like being open-minded to that, I think is really really important, and then we can, once we stop judging it now, we can actually start to analyze it and figure out how it works.

Speaker 1: 14:09

So, yeah, so, okay. So I'm following you with and I think that, like the subconscious, like reaction, because somebody, you know, like the subconscious reaction, because somebody subconsciously reminds you of a previous partner or some level of trauma that you incurred in your life, for whatever reason. So take us through that. When that's occurring, how do we know that it's happening to us. Let's start there. Like, like how do we recognize that? Oh, this might be, this might be my nervous system getting dysregulated.

Speaker 2: 14:46

Like, like how do we start there? Yeah, so this is where, for the visual people, the PDF is going to come in handy. And what's going to happen is you're going to notice that your body and your mind start to respond in a couple of different ways. So we might have the fight response or the flight response, which are what we call the sympathetic nervous system activating. That's when there's energy activated in the body and your body perceives the threat as something that you can run away from or fight, and so it usually looks like some level of feeling.

Speaker 2: 15:27

It can be kind of like there's tense muscles. You're fidgety, you kind of just want to like get on with things and get moving. You want to like get out of there, kind of like get it all done. You also feel really like anxious or panicky or worried or defensive, and I see this kind of coming out in two different ways.

Speaker 2: 15:44

We can kind of take it out onto other people, so like they have to fix this thing, they have to do it quicker, they're not enough, they're too much. Or we can take it onto ourselves and we can be like oh my God, I didn't do that, I didn't do that quick enough, I could have done that better. Why is this so hard for me? I'm so annoyed at myself. I can't believe that I'm doing this again. I don't know I'm not doing enough. And what usually happens is we spend a lot of time in this activated space that can feel very energized in the body, and you might even see these people in the office. They're like they're running around doing stuff, right, yeah, yeah, totally Uh-huh. And guys, yeah, carla's like running.

Speaker 1: 16:27

So, for those that can't see, I'm like, I'm like mimicking a run right now.

Speaker 2: 16:31

And we almost, uh, glorify them because they're really productive. Probably or at least they appear to be productive they're probably the person in the office that drinks six coffees a day and doesn't like to be calm. It's really difficult to be slow and to be calm when we're in this place, and so you might notice that that is a way that you are in a lot of the day, or it even is just like around a certain person. You tense up a little bit, your jaw gets a little bit tense, you kind of squeeze your body a little bit. So that would be a sympathetic response and that would tell you you're dysregulated. Another one would be what we call I call it the blue zone, but technically it's called docile, vagal, and it's some level of shutdown. This is when your body thinks that the threat, the person in front of you or the situation is so big that the most effective way is to just play dead. It's so big and you're not strong enough, so we play dead.

Speaker 2: 17:37

This is that employee that doesn't just, they just don't do stuff. You know they just. And it's that employee, you know those ones you've seen and or a colleague, or maybe it's you, and at the beginning, when they started they had heaps of really good ideas and they would um, they would make decisions by themselves and they would uh, they would make suggestions. But they got shut down so many times that now they've just stopped and if you're like to them, oh yeah, but have you suggested thing? They're like there's no point, it's just not going to work.

Speaker 2: 18:10

That's that person and there's just low energy. You feel heavy, you feel weak. You can probably hear it a little bit in my voice and then you can probably feel it in your body. You kind of just start feeling like there's no point. These people tend to be a little bit more depressive or lethargic. It's really hard to get up in the morning. You're just tired and you breathe slower. You don't like to look at people, these people with these tendencies. I find them less in middle to senior management, because it's hard to do the things that need to be done from this place to get you to that level. So you might have them less, but it doesn't mean that it isn't a tendency and that it won't exist inside of you or people around you absolutely so, it's.

Speaker 1: 19:07

So this is fascinating to me. So because I think that like, naming, like, like actually identifying these types of things is really important, so I went through, I, I did some kind of some workshops on this a number of months ago and I actually, I actually I figured out, I realized that through much of my career I was actually operating within the sympathetic nervous system. I was just like high functioning fight or flight mode where it's like very, very frantic, but, you know, generally effective, um, you know, and in certain scenarios, like like, really effective yeah um, you know, especially like, like you know, when you're you know,

Speaker 1: 19:42

dealing with like, almost like an emergency level situation or something like that. But, um, but you're just flooding yourself with cortisol and and it's like, it's like the, it's like just a recipe for absolute burnout and it really it doesn't allow you to make great decisions, right? So, like it's, it's uh, it might look good on the outside, but you know, I think we all have that coworker that runs around and brags about like I'm on my 12th cup of coffee Look how amazing I am. It's actually like, oh, I need to help you. Like you need help. Like can I help you? Like, take a breath, please, please. And I can see it now.

Speaker 2: 20:21

but that was me for a number of years right Totally. Did you find that people? So there's two things I want to say about that. I want to make sure we come back to what makes work fulfilling, because we need that sympathetic response. I'm sure that that was satisfying for you on some level for a really long time, until it wasn't, and but did you find that people almost respected you or you became like the?

Speaker 1: 20:50

go-to guy to get things done in some way. Yeah, like, like, I'll just tell an. I'll use an example here. So I used to be the guy that the minute I'd get an email, I'd like respond like really, really like like a hair trigger response, and so, and people would like so. Then I became Mr Reliable, mr Dependable, like Kyle will email you, you know, within I don't know 30 minutes without fail. But what ended up happening is I just, you know, you just burn out, you just kind of spin around so, and that it actually created like an overwhelming, like like I just got so much work I couldn't get it all done, so it became, it became detrimental, but but it absolutely made a name for me as like Mr Reliable, right, so it was.

Speaker 2: 21:36

There was some level of like, of positive ripple from that and be reliable or respond in ways that are quite necessary, especially in a lot of different places. How do I have that level of capacity inside of my body without going into a sympathetic response?

Speaker 1: 22:15

Right, yeah, and what I found? My personal experience, what I found is I have a pretty deep reservoir for holding stress, but once I hit that, it's like flame out, Like like it's just like you know, I like completely overwhelmed. Um, and now you know, now I can, I can manage it more effectively. Um, but you know, if you say yes to everything, you're saying no to a lot of things that matter. So, um, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 22:52

Okay, Well let's talk about regulating, so we don't leave everybody hanging.

Speaker 1: 22:54

Does that feel okay? Yes, please.

Speaker 2: 22:57

Yes.

Speaker 1: 22:57

Let's talk about that.

Speaker 2: 22:58

Yeah. So I'm going to make it super simple and for more specific stuff, once again, pdf. In the PDF I have like a list of things you can do that will help you regulate based on your zone or your tendency. That don't require time or space or privacy. They're not woo-woo, they're very simple. It's like do this type of yoga, run your hands and wrists under cold water, so everyone can go and look at that list.

Speaker 2: 23:24

But what we're going to remember on a more foundational level is that when you're sympathetic, you have energy in your body that needs to be moved until you find relaxation. So it's like what's happening is your body thinks you're running from a bear, and if we were all running from a bear, what would happen is we would run, run, run, run, run, run, run. Okay, no bear anymore. Great, oh, take a big seat, deep, big, deep breath, and then we would go and we would look a human in the eyes and be like, far out, we did it, let's go have some champagne. And so we need to create that, and so I think, even like knowing that even the idea that's coming to me right now is that you can help as somebody in HR. You can actually really help the team by celebrating at the end of a sprint let's say you're doing a sprint by celebrating and actually doing something that gets them in that rest response and like fully brings them down and having like a good day or like a three-day weekend to actually just like, oh okay, we did that, we got it done Like really resting and educating on how important that is, because that's where we replenish the body and the brain with the creativity that is necessary, the body and the brain with the creativity that is necessary for your next sprint.

Speaker 2: 24:41

Because the reason that we become burnt out is because we don't experience that completion. We always run on cortisol, we don't come back down, we don't find the serotonin and the oxytocin and that connection and relaxation that replenishes it. So if you are, if you tend more to that, it's just can you find a way to move that energy through the body? It might be that you take walking meetings you got to move the energy. It might be that you go to the gym before you go home you got to move that energy. But then, more importantly, can you relax without depending on a substance? So a lot of the time we find our body craves that relaxation and so we'll have a glass of wine. That's not great because your body doesn't actually find it.

Speaker 2: 25:38

It's like so can you just take a few deep breaths? That's where it's like just take three deep breaths. Actually, can we do it right now? We're going to do the sympathetic, the three-part sigh. If anyone knows Andrew Huberman, he's really into nervous system stuff and these are the sighs that you know, like Navy SEALs and everyone does. So we're going to do them right now. Are you ready? Here we go. Okay, so you're going to do. You're going to inhale all the way up with your lips closed, inhale through the nostril, then you're going to sip in a little bit more and then you're going to exhale yeah, and then you want to do that two more times. So one more time inhale, zip in, exhale.

Speaker 2: 26:24

There we go cool so that's what we, that's one way. Um, if you tend more to that shutdown, you're feeling really lethargic, which will happen after you've spent a lot of time in cortisol. You need to activate energy, which means you need everything that is activating. You need sun, you need citrus, you need to get up and move your body. You need to go for a dance, you need to go to the gym. You need fun and sun anything that is activating. You need to get up, you need to lift some weights, you need to do a breath work where you do a lot of inhalations. So, wim Hof, breathing is very helpful for that. If you're guys into ice baths and things like that, wim Hof, breathing is really helpful, but you need to get up and you need to get out and you need to specifically get energy into your limbs.

Speaker 2: 27:22

I don't care what it is that you do, but get energy into your limbs and that reminds the body. Oh, I felt like I needed to shut down, but it's actually okay. It's actually okay and that could just be wiggling your toes while you're having. If you're having like a really difficult conversation, you feel yourself shutting down. It might even just be kind of like pressing on your thighs, just to remind your body that we've got some energy there and it's okay, and I've got this and we're not. We're not, everything's okay. It could be as simple as that and most people won't teach it to you like this. But that's how you regulate and that's how you make it accessible. Won't teach it to you like this, but that's how you regulate and that's how you make it accessible.

Speaker 1: 28:05

Am I clear when I say these things? Yes, yeah, and I I think I think what's really powerful here is like you can do this at work, right, like you don't have to go, you don't have to go to like a you know shamanic retreat, and like you do anything that's like super crazy. Like you can do breath work sitting in your cubicle.

Speaker 2: 28:24

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 28:24

Right, it's not, you know it's, it's absolutely feasible. And thinking about these techniques in that context, um, I think is is is really interesting. Um, what if we see somebody else that's struggling with this and and like I'm just thinking as an hr professional, a lot of times I, a lot of times I see like somebody I'm, I'm with and I can just tell like, oh, that you are dysregulated, you need to, like, you need help. How do you recommend that we actually help somebody who who might be in one of these dysregulated states and like how can we, how can we like do this in a way that you would recommend that's not like embarrassing or too awkward?

Speaker 2: 29:07

Yeah Well, I think number one is like don't try to convince them of anything. Don't be that guy that's like, hey, I've got this really good resource, until there's kind of a switch in the moment, um in the in the conversation, where you can recommend that. But what you don't want to do is be the person that either tries to convince them that everything's okay. Their body can't see it and won't see it. That's a waste of your energy. Tries to recommend them to do something. Their body is literally trying not to die and to not expend energy. Why do they care about listening to the podcast? They don't care, unless they kind of do and like there's some renown again where they actually might ask for help and you can be like, oh, I did listen to this podcast and you can send it over. But don't necessarily be that person that just like gives them more resources because their body feels overwhelmed and is unlikely to want to take on more. What I always prefer to recommend is number one when you're sitting with them, embody groundedness. What I specifically mean is be slow in your breathing. What I specifically mean is be slow in your breathing, and sometimes the way that I do this is, I think, about sending my breath to the back of my ribs on my spine and breathing into the back of my body, and when you can embody that groundedness and when you can embody that groundedness, you help them and their body start to see that it's safe to be present. Now they can lock into a conversation with you more and then you can do what I call finding the emotion underneath the dysregulation. There's a reason that that person is running around because a lot of the time, if not all the time, as humans we actually become dysregulated because we are avoiding feeling an emotion in our body. We are avoiding feeling an emotion in our body. The guy that's drinking all the coffee might be afraid that they're going to fail, they're not going to do a good enough job, and that would be really embarrassing. And then what would they do for them and their kids? Or the woman who just feels like she can't do it anymore and she's made a million recommendations and nobody's listening is avoiding feeling that feeling of discouragement or disappointment. And so I recommend usually just finding that emotion and just almost like reflecting it back and like, oh, it sounds like you're kind of disappointed, not becoming a therapist, but just seeing that there's an emotion, a human underneath. It Sounds like there's a lot going on at home, sounds like you're holding a lot of, doesn't it Like it's a pretty stressful period of time, like that sounds pretty intense and validating it, or it sounds like that's really important to you and just seeing how, seeing if you can just find that emotion underneath and then get on the same page with them.

Speaker 2: 32:24

I hope that it's like finding their motivation. Why are they here? What is important for them in their life? What are their goals right now? Are their goals even related to work? They may not be Like finding that human underneath and then, when you've got that, that is the place where now they feel safe and seen enough that they could, they could actually receive your advice, and so that is the place where you'd be like you know, I did see this one resource. I have heard about this one thing and I reckon it might help you. What do you reckon that place is where they're going to receive you. You're smiling. What are you thinking? Yeah, yeah're going to receive you. You're smiling. What are you thinking?

Speaker 1: 33:02

yeah, yeah, no, I mean, I think this is, you know, it's so much of this is about like it's. It's getting through the like, like getting to the heart of of who you're actually talking to, right and and and embodying what I think hr should be, which is an actual resource and somebody who is emotionally intelligent enough to observe when somebody is dysregulated and help them feel safe. And for me, that's really the root of the work as it relates to how we help others, of the work as it relates to how we help others. But, as we've been talking here, this all starts with yourself, right? You have to be able to observe this in yourself and then reflect that and then you can start to help others. So, with that being said and I said this before I hit record, I know we're just going to get like warmed up and want to continue the conversation. I want to be mindful of your time, and so we are towards the end of our time together, but I'm fascinated to hear your responses to the Rebel HR flash round. Are you ready?

Speaker 2: 34:11

Yeah, I'm ready.

Speaker 1: 34:12

All right. Question number one where do we need to rebel?

Speaker 2: 34:29

to rebel. We need to rebel in not you articulated it really well earlier, so I'm trying to find them back. We need to rebel in that we need to prioritize enough the human inside of every single person in the workplace over the illusion of productivity and success and achievement, because humans are more creative. Humans are more innovative, but humans, when they're focused, they're actually more productive than a dysregulated human. It doesn't appear that way at first, but it's true. So we need to rebel against this idea that being the guy that's reliable and gets everything done and runs around doing it all is the best way to be.

Speaker 1: 35:07

I love it. I love it. Question number two who should we be listening to?

Speaker 2: 35:13

Our bodies, but the real sensation underneath our bodies. We need to learn it. You need to learn to understand what is real intuition and instinct and your body's intelligence, not just dysregulation or fear or habit.

Speaker 1: 35:27

I love it. Yeah, and I think this is one you know as someone as a self-described kind of like autonomic fight or flight junkie for most of my career. You get really good at disconnecting yeah Right, like that's, because it's a coping mechanism. Because then you get really good at disconnecting yeah Right, like you, that's because it's a coping mechanism, because then you can just get more stuff done. Um, that doesn't mean you're necessarily effective, it just makes you feel better. So I love that you have that reminder to connect and listen and truly listen. Yeah, all right. Last question here. So we already talked about the PDF. I'll make sure we get a link of that to the show notes. How can our listeners learn more and connect with you?

Speaker 2: 36:04

Yeah, thank you. Sustainable Success is my podcast. It's Sustainable Success. My name is Sheridan Ruth. You can also find me just at SheridanRuthcom LinkedIn, instagram, but probably that PDF will orient you to all the right places and Carl will take care of you. For that, thank you.

Speaker 1: 36:23

Absolutely, sheridan. This has been an absolutely wonderful conversation. I just really can't thank you enough for the work that you're doing and I just appreciate the difference that you're making in the workplace. Thank you for spending some time with us today, and you're going to help a lot of people.

Speaker 2: 36:39

Thank you so much.

Speaker 1: 36:41

All right, that does it for the Rebel HR podcast. Big thank you to our guests. Follow us on Facebook at Rebel HR Podcast, twitter at Rebel HR Guy, or see our website at rebelhumanresourcescom. The views and opinions expressed by Rebel HR podcast are those of the authors and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any of the organizations that we represent. No animals were harmed during the filming of this podcast.

Speaker 2: 37:11

Baby.