Speaker 2: 0:03

This is the Rebel HR podcast, the podcast about all things innovation in the people's space. I'm Kyle Rode. Let's start the show. All right, welcome back Rebel HR community. We are going to have a fun conversation today. With us we have Pam Buchanan. She is the founder of Quantum Sense, and we are going to be talking about soul health today. Pam, welcome to the podcast.

Speaker 1: 0:29

Thank you so much, Kyle. I look forward to reaching out to your audience and discussing soul health.

Speaker 2: 0:35

Well, likewise, I'm really excited for the conversation today. I get quite a few guest pitches and this one was really, really intriguing for me because it's a different way to think about employee health and well-being, and I think it's a really important topic that we all kind of stay away from in the world of human resources, but I do think that it's an important thing to discuss openly, and that's what the podcast is all about. So thanks for joining us today.

Speaker 1: 1:04

Great, wonderful.

Speaker 2: 1:06

All right. So you know. My first question for you as a founder is is what motivated you to found an organization that focuses on soul health?

Speaker 1: 1:20

You know I was in corporate America for 40 years. That seems like a long time even when I say it so you know I had an amazing career in. You know asset management and fintech and working with companies. You know in all sectors of the market, so I feel I got a really good handle on. You know how corporations are run. Especially, you know I was with NASDAQ for 15 years and I got to work with startup companies, so they're molding. You know their culture, and that was fascinating to see as well, and it was focused really on.

Speaker 1: 1:59

You know your physical health, and you know that's important, right? You know being physically healthy is very important. You know companies offer gym memberships or encourage people to take time to take care of their body, and then, of course, you know just recently, we've had mental health. You know insurance companies are covering mental health. There's more talk about mental health and how it affects your performance, and that's important as well, but what is the third leg of the stool that's missing is soul health, because we all hear the phrase mind, body and soul, so we're not talking about that, though, and your soul is a part of your being, just like your physical body obviously is a part of your being. Your mental body is a part of your physical being, but your soul is too, and so let's go deep. It's really talking about a deeper aspect of yourself. And do you know yourself? You know how do you know yourself, how are you motivated? You know how do you show up in the world, and I think that really goes to soul health.

Speaker 1: 3:06

So I want to take the audience into a broader definition of soul, just other than the ways we've been talking about it in the past, which, again, I think people relate to the soul and think religion. It's not about religion, not about religion. You know. Yes, religion may play a part in your practice of going deep into your being and who you are, but your soul is yours, and let's get to know it at a deeper level. And I feel I can talk about this because I was born an identical twin, so I came into this world, if you will, I have someone that has the same genetic makeup as myself. Right, physically we look alike. Mentally I'd say we're pretty much alike, but what differentiates us is our soul and how we show up in the world and where our paths have taken us. So I am an individual, and what makes me an individual is my soul.

Speaker 2: 4:10

Yeah. So I think, yeah, certainly, a lot of times the connotation with soul is religion, right, or specifically organized religion. And so a lot of us, certainly in corporate America, it's almost like don't say it, don't speak it, you know, like, like and and it's, it's, it's risky. But I do think, especially lately, we've talked a lot about you know, we've talked a lot about mental health and getting your head right and, and you know, kind of being in the right mindset and being, you know, and being your own authentic self. And so what I'm hearing, what I'm hearing you say, is is that that, in order to truly kind of support our employees in this aspect of of what we need them to do, we have to focus on soul health? Am I kind of in the right path here?

Speaker 1: 5:03

Yeah, no absolutely to focus on soul health. Am I kind of in the right path here? Yeah, no, absolutely. You know to take your organization to that next level. If you read news articles, it says employees continue to be unhappy. So you know what is missing if the company, the employer, is giving all of these resources. I mean, never before have I seen so many resources being devoted to employees and yet something's still missing.

Speaker 1: 5:32

So here you are as an HR professional. You know providing, whether it's educational services, programs on different. You know nutrition and you know, just as you said your mindset, how to you know nutrition and you know, just as you said your mindset, how to you know become more positive and engage. And I think the way to talk about that is through soul health. And you know it is a term that you know can be looked at as okay. We need to steer away from this term in corporate America, but I feel if you're broaching mental health, which is a sensitive subject as well, you should be able to broach soul health, because that is the essence of a person. So who is that person that you've employed? Yes, you want a certain role out of them. They're hired to do a certain job, but productivity is directly tied to you, know well your physical, mental and your soul.

Speaker 2: 6:36

Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know I think it's interesting and and so I've been I've been doing this, this HR thing, for roughly 20 years now. It's interesting to see what has shifted over the last two decades. You know, it started off as, like wellness, like biggest loser contests, right, like who can lose the most weight, yeah, and then in recent history, it's been talking about mental health a little bit more openly, which I think is good. But the truth is, people are still unhealthy in many aspects of their life.

Speaker 2: 7:17

Many people are still miserable at work, and my argument is so, quite frankly, my argument on a lot of these wellness programs is they don't really work, and my argument is, you know, so, quite frankly, like, my argument on a lot of these like wellness programs is they don't really work, like they're not really working, like there's there's something missing and and I feel like you know it, many of them are very hollow and very like, almost like, like, like corporate-y right, like it's like this isn't really incentivizing people to to be healthy. It's it's, it's like this isn't really incentivizing people to be healthy. It's almost like you just need something to check the box to say you have a wellness program, but I'm still honestly waiting for a program that wows me and says, hey, this actually helps your employees feel better, work more productively, feel like whole human beings and make better connections and relationships with people they work with. I have yet to find that program, so help me understand. How does this fit into that?

Speaker 1: 8:12

Hopefully it will be the program Perfect. I start with the senses. That's why I name my company Quantum Sense. We all have our five senses, but again, how we interact and what are the five senses doing? They're helping us interact with the outside environment. So I call it let's go outside in, let's not go inside out, let's go outside in. So let's sit back and view our environments that we put ourselves in. Are they healthy? And what does that look like for you? And so, if we drill down to, okay, visually, what are we seeing? What is the room and the smell of the room? What are the noises that we're hearing? What are the noises that we're hearing, you know, what are the fabrics that we're touching? So that goes from not only the work environment but to the home environment.

Speaker 1: 9:11

How do you leave your house or stay in your house to interact with your colleagues at work? Are you showing up with intent? You know intent being, you know how do I want to show up today? And asking yourself that, how do I want to show up today with my deepest, authentic, soul-based self? And if you ask yourself that question, you're like okay, where do I begin? Okay, here I am. You know I've been, you know, employed at this job for years, you know what more can I bring? I'm burnt out.

Speaker 1: 9:49

Well, let's take a step back and it almost puts you in a relaxed mode or a receptive mode to start taking in your environment through your senses, your environment through your senses. So it's as simple as that, right, like you and I, let's say music is different for everyone, like what we hear and what brings us up, what you know brings back memories. But let's start talking about it and getting to know that individual. It's a simple, non-threatening way, right, to learn about your employees. What music do you like? What colors do you like? You know, what smells do you like? And then let's start infusing that into the environment, because it really, as nikola tesla said, everything is energy and that's all that matters is our energetic being, because that's what the senses are. They're engaging our nervous system, right, and our energetic vibrations to bring this person to its fullest being so. And we got to start getting out of survival mode and put ourselves into thrive mode. And how do we do that? We ground ourselves first. So my program starts with ground, elevate, evolve. So let's ground ourselves into our five senses.

Speaker 1: 11:34

Let's start talking about the five senses and how we engage in our environments, how we put our environments together. So I consult a lot on you know what does the work environment look like? And now more and more companies are coming to their senses and bringing in smells and bringing in music that has been shown scientifically to enhance the overall well-being of people. So it's almost like an invisible program, if you will right. It doesn't even need to be talked about. It's an invisible way to help your employees thrive if you set up an environment that is supportive for them. And so it starts with how many of your employees are grounded, and I would beg to venture not a lot are, because we all are running the hamster wheel, right, just go. But have you asked your employees just to sit back, employees just to sit back? And and again, it's so individual that then the employee is thinking oh, they are interested in who I am by tapping into the five senses, and we all have them.

Speaker 2: 13:06

And it's what individuates us, which equates to your soul health. I love that and I think so. I'm a musician, so like you start talking about music, Like I think that, and I think many of us could, whether you're, you know we have, you know, a hobby of you know arts or sports or something like that Like there's something that for some reason, you know it, resonates with us as people and you know it's funny to me, Like when people find out that I'm a musician, the entire interaction changes, but by nothing more than them realizing oh, this is a whole person, Right, this isn't like a soulless person that just sends a lot of corporate emails all day long. Yeah, Right.

Speaker 1: 13:46

Well, and a good way to put it, let's get real right.

Speaker 2: 13:49

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 13:50

Like those, wellness programs aren't succeeding because you're not getting to the depth of the human.

Speaker 2: 13:57

Right.

Speaker 1: 13:58

And it doesn't have to be scary, off-topic. You know subjects that we've been told we, you know, shouldn't broach, right, you're getting to know that human, just like you would, of course. Let's say that your employee had a heart attack. You would be concerned, you would call the hospital, you would reach out, talk about the health of that person. You know, we're comfortable with that. But we can also visualize that, right, we can visualize the hospital. We can visualize the heart, all the organs I call it organ health. Right, we can all talk about our organ health.

Speaker 1: 14:40

Then mental health comes along and that's become mainstream, which is great. Right, because that puts more knowledge into the entire being. But that can kind of be on a sad note too. Typically right, like, oh, you're depressed, you're anxious. I mean, our whole society is anxious because we're moving so fast, technology is coming at us so fast. So why don't we start talking about it at the depth that we need to, which, again, is the soul and it is a part of your being. It's not, oh, I go to church or a synagogue and pray, right, that's not what I'm talking about. I'm not getting into that religious aspect. I'm not getting into that religious aspect. I'm getting into? What do your senses tell you that, how you know, help your employees reach the more productive and successful your company is. It's in a non-threatening way, I guess I should say.

Speaker 2: 16:02

Well, I like, I like what I, I like how you're describing it and I think it's one of those things where it's a great example of sometimes it's kind of hard to explain, right, you know, like somebody's energy that they bring, or you know a lot of HR professional, you know when someone's like operating at a higher level, right, like there's a level of energy that they bring, or frequency or whatever terms you want to use, but we don't necessarily have a great way to explain it right or describe it.

Speaker 2: 16:45

Or you can't, like you can't, put your arms around it right or describe it, or you can't, like you can't put your arms around it right, like you can't, you can't see that, but it definitely exists, right, and so I think that's where it gets. It gets a little bit, a little bit complicated, you know, and I and I, and so I'm curious as you've done this work and as you're helping kind of define some of this work or help organizations think differently about this, how are you helping them reframe this in a way that's explainable, describable like, accessible for people to understand how this?

Speaker 1: 17:24

works. Yeah, that's a great question and it is challenging. I'm not going to lie about that. It's very challenging. And you know, initially, you know people immediately, you know, shut the door and said, oh, that's religion, we don't. You know.

Speaker 1: 17:38

Approach, that that's a personal topic. And then now, the more that I've talked about it as the world has continued to evolve, you hear the word soul a little bit more these days. People are getting comfortable. But especially when I say mind, body, soul, you have programs for your body, right. You have health programs that say, okay, let's get out and run the 5K. You have nutrition programs that say, okay, let's get out and run the 5K. You have nutrition consultants. Come in, you may have healthy snacks in your office place. That's the norm, and so that's talked about.

Speaker 1: 18:21

But why can't we talk about the soul in a non-threatening or non-invasive way? So I think that finding the words is still challenging for me because I'm so deep into it. But when I say it's sense to soul or when I say it's at the quantum, we're going into this quantum era, right? We, we all hear the word quantum. We didn't hear that word three years ago. Now we hear it all the time. Let's get to the next level. What does that mean? It's just the next level. So are you innovating? It goes back to innovation also. Are you innovating? Are you encouraging creativity out of a person? So I think that's when you say you're a musician, I say oh wow, he's creative. You know, he's not just, as you said, a person sending emails behind a screen. He has creativity. So it goes into. Maybe we start talking about creativity yeah, that word. And so I have a program called Rad Curiosity, basically taking your curiosity to the next level. So I start with that a lot of times and say let's just talk about curiosity.

Speaker 2: 19:45

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 19:45

Let's get that, and everybody can Right right and relate to the senses. Now, a lot of times they say what can I learn more about the senses? Well, it goes deep, right into how our nervous systems interact with the environment around us. And now, you see, sound health is gaining momentum. There's businesses out there that are helping Parkinson's. You hear more and more about music that's played in hospital operating rooms, and again it goes down to the frequency. So I bring in some sound engineers as well and let's talk about frequency. Let's talk about the Hertz level. Let's talk about the Hertz level. So I try to make it science-based, so that you learn more about what's going on within your body as you are tapping into your soul. So let's make it science-based, let's base it on curiosity, and so I should probably name my company Science of the Soul, right, and let's learn more about that. And there is, you know, evidence-based science behind that.

Speaker 2: 21:02

Yeah. So I think you know let's not take'll just totally nerd out. We get into sound therapy. There are certain frequencies and as a musician you figure out there's 440 hertz and all these things that you tune to to a certain frequency, at the right volume and like in the right, like context of my body, and I can get like full body goosebumps and it's like okay, that tells me there's something to this right, like there's a reason that my body is reacting in this way. There's a reason that music exists in all cultures, regardless of you know, there's no youtube, but there's, but there's culture and and there's very similar pitch, intonation and scales. There's, there's culture and there's very similar pitch, intonation and scales. There's minor differences, but there's similarities throughout all world music and that tells me this is bigger than just some small culture in the United States.

Speaker 1: 22:08

This is like a human experience, right, I've played folk over in Europe and are more embracing this type of program, so they're more open to learning more about curiosity, or I don't want to say soft skills, but even you know, as we speak, you know the World Economic Forum is going on right, so, and you know, deepak Chopra is over there and they have, you know, sessions on curiosity and what are the skills that are going to take us to the next millennium? And that, your soft skills, your human skills, what makes us human? Because, if you think about it, robots are being programmed their intellect right. They have intellect. They can process data faster than you and I. We've got to bring that out so that we can, you know, compete with others.

Speaker 1: 23:21

Why do you hire people? You know Elon Musk is famous for saying I made a mistake. I hired people just for intellect, not how we get along. Yeah, you know. And so that's important. When you're building out a team, you know you could have several candidates. Maybe one has a higher IQ than this one over here, but this one over here brings the full package Right and can interact and maybe be more productive within a team, because we know that it takes a team to get the job done Every single time in our corporate role. We couldn't do it without the team behind us. We each play a critical role to that.

Speaker 2: 24:06

Right, you can't hear it right now, but there's applause on the other end of the podcast right now with HR professionals saying, yes, you can't just hire for intellect, you got to hire for the full package. Yeah, yeah, we've seen it go wrong too many times.

Speaker 1: 24:20

Yeah, well, and what do you need to bring into that right? What questions do you ask? What questions do you need to tell your hiring managers? You know, let's start looking at the whole person. You know, and you know, bring in you know, bring in you know myself to talk about soul health and why it is important and why curiosity is important and why you need to look at an individual at a broader definition, and that's what it is.

Speaker 2: 24:52

We're broadening the definition of who that being is. Yeah, yeah, I love that and I think I think that's a lot of what you know. I think there's there's been almost a wave of of of content and research around things like you know authenticity, how to build trust, you know how to, how to you know kind of be be an effective team leader, but I, for me, so much of it starts with, like your own, the way that you interact with the world, your own kind of completeness and how you show up every single day. And, yeah, it's about being focused on the whole picture, right.

Speaker 1: 25:29

We're taught, right? No school taught that. We're taught in a system that had us all lined up in a row. You know, all taking the same tests. You know all judged on the same scale, right? So that's why you hear a lot. Oh well, this C student. He succeeded and is now running a successful corporation. Why isn't my A student doing that? Right, because it takes more of your being to participate in life. Absolutely, how are you participating in life? And so I think our corporations can play a big role in that, and schools should also start engaging more in the arts and creativity and valuing those types of skills other than the metrics that we use, and I think you're going to see that changing as well the education system. So our world is changing. What is your corporation doing to help your employees engage in the new world?

Speaker 2: 26:30

Yeah, yeah, not to chase too much of a tangent here, but I have three kids and they're all they're in elementary and junior high and you know, they, they, they measure these kids on on reading and math. Basically, you know a little bit of reading comprehension, but what's fascinating to me about this and you overlay this over the changing world and AI and all of the IQ stuff that they're measuring it's like that's not a differentiator anymore. It doesn't how many times when I was in school, my teacher was like you're not going to have a calculator available all the time. You have to learn how to do this longhand division. No, I don't, yeah, no, I don't. No, I can just ask ChatGgpt to do it for me.

Speaker 2: 27:20

And oh, by the way, they can build an excel spreadsheet exactly how I want it. And you know, I have to be able to interpret it. I have to be able to work, as it is, with a team. I have to be able to work with others and get them aligned around a common goal. I have to be able to to see beyond these like black and white concepts, and that's what we spend so much time focused on. That I do believe. I totally agree that we're kind of missing the big picture and, quite frankly, you know we're losing what makes us human a little bit if we focus too much on this right.

Speaker 1: 27:53

Well, what is going to? I mean, you hate to ask the question, but let's ask it what is going to differentiate a human being versus a robot? Because you're going to robot in your corporate environment, right, we're going to start seeing those, you're going to start interact. So what is going to differentiate yourself? And that is your soul, yeah, your humanness, right, what is your humanness?

Speaker 2: 28:15

Yeah, it's interesting. So I mean I will tell you right now we're already interacting with robots. Like I can tell when someone uses like chat GPT to write an email, like I can just tell, and it's funny, like, theoretically, hypothetically, you shouldn't really be able to Right. It's funny like, theoretically, hypothetically, you shouldn't really be able to right, but there's still an intuitive capability as a human being that AI does not have. That's the secret sauce, right, like you can't replace that.

Speaker 1: 28:47

How do you? You know, I've always used my intuition and that's non-tangible right. Like you know in a lot of interactions I had, well, we need to go through these steps to get to that end result. Well, I already know how to get there intuitively. So let's just skip all these steps that may take a year and let's go for it, right?

Speaker 2: 29:12

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 29:13

Okay, so let's get our employees tapping into their intuition Again. How do you get to your intuition? You start by knowing yourself, who you are trusting yourself. It's not about trusting the managers and the people you work with. Let's start with trusting ourselves.

Speaker 2: 29:33

I love it. And with that we're going to leave a little bit of a punctuation mark on the podcast. We're going to shift gears into the Rebel HR flash round. Are you ready?

Speaker 1: 29:43

Okay, I'm ready.

Speaker 2: 29:44

All right. So from trusting yourself to when do we need to rebel?

Speaker 1: 29:55

Wow, that is a great question. I love that word rebellion, rebel. I think we need to rebel and show up as our true self, and people don't do that. They show up like we think others want us to show up. So let's start showing up as our true self and letting others in to our true self.

Speaker 2: 30:22

I could not agree more. That would actually be my answer if I were to ask myself that question After all these years of doing this podcast. I am convinced that the most rebellious thing you can do is show up as yourself. Be yourself.

Speaker 1: 30:39

Yes, absolutely.

Speaker 2: 30:40

And if you do that, then before this yeah, totally agree. Question number two who should we be listening to?

Speaker 1: 31:01

Wow, when you say listening to, are you? What? Are you referring to? Media?

Speaker 2: 31:02

TV, you can go whichever direction you want.

Speaker 1: 31:11

Okay, I can go Again. Another broad question. So who should you be listening to? I think you should be listening to people that you're drawn to, right, like who is your circle of friends? Are they engaging? Do they add to your curiosity and exposure to the world? Do they add to different views of the world? So push yourself to open your mind and listen to different viewpoints right Across the board, and then I would not listen, but I would start reading books on different topics. Let's start reading about AI and how that works. Let's start reading about quantum. Let's start reading about, you know, our um, our beings, and in a different light, like what, who? Who are the authors that are talking about a new world and how we show up in that new work? Who are the thought leaders? Yeah, so I love it. Yeah, I have a whole list of thought leaders that I and to stay with the theme.

Speaker 2: 32:16

You know what I'm hearing is stay with the theme of what we talked about. You know, get curious, right? You know, don't close your mind off and stay open minded. Yeah, all right. Last question how can our listeners connect with you? How can they learn more and get?

Speaker 1: 32:29

connected. Thank you, I would love to hear from your listeners. Thank you, I would love to hear from your listeners. Please reach out. I have a website, thequantumsensecom thequantumsensecom, and you can even hear some frequency music I have playing on the website and learn more about my programs. And then also I have a LinkedIn page Pam Buchanan or the Quantum Sense that you can reach out to me on. So we'd love to even have a conversation, a dialogue. Let's just start.

Speaker 2: 33:03

Stay curious and do some investigation, but I think what's so exciting about the time here, pam, and about your work, is that to me this seems to help complete the wellness picture a little bit. This is a more holistic solution to a problem that we really haven't figured out, and so I appreciate you doing the work here.

Speaker 1: 33:37

Holistic solution to a problem that we really haven't figured out, and so I appreciate you doing the work here. So be a part of innovation, be a leader for your corporation and introduce this type of program.

Speaker 2: 33:48

Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally agree, Pam. Thank you again for the time today and for spending just a few minutes with us, and I can't wait to hear the reaction.

Speaker 1: 33:59

Thank you.

Speaker 2: 34:02

All right, that does it for the Rebel HR podcast. Big thank you to our guests. Follow us on Facebook at Rebel HR podcast, twitter at Rebel HR guy, or see our website at rebel human resourcescom. The views and opinions expressed by rebel Hr podcast are those of the authors and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any of the organizations that we represent. No animals were harmed during the filming of this podcast. Baby.