Janice Lintz: 0:00

When you can break it down into a visual way that people can understand it. It's much clearer. Otherwise it's this topic that's just too confusing, overwhelming. People like, Oh, please, I have to learn something else. So I had to make it easy for people to understand.

Kyle Roed: 0:17

This is the rebel HR podcast, the podcast where we talk to human resources, innovators, about innovation in the world of HR. If you are a people leader, or you're looking for a new way to think about how to help others be successful. This is the podcast for you. Rebel on HR rebels. All right, Rebel HR listeners, I'm extremely excited for our guest. Today, we've got with us, Janice lince. Janice is a hearing access consultant, a consumer advocate, a writer and a traveler, and I have a feeling she's a little bit of a force of nature. She is passionate and accomplished hearing loss consultant advocate, she is well known and respected for her ability to assess situations identify areas for improvement, and recommend solutions and implement programs that help organizations improve customer service and NGO profits. She has done so much that I can't even read all the accomplishments list off here. But she's really become the go to person on all matters related to access for people who are deaf, or hard of hearing. She has an undergrad in business a lot degree. She's a successful litigator, and she is going to teach us a lot today about removing barriers, and hiring individuals with disabilities. Welcome to the show, Janice.

Janice Lintz: 1:45

Thank you so much. Appreciate being here. Well, absolutely.

Kyle Roed: 1:49

And we were talking before I hit record, but you know, you have accomplished so much. And it was it's just thrilling for me to be able to speak to somebody who has really taken on the world. And as we were discussing was the point of the sword for change and advocacy. I love that so so why don't we start off, why don't you just kind of tell us a little bit of the foundation for how you got involved in your work, as it relates to hearing loss, support and advocacy.

Janice Lintz: 2:21

So my daughter was diagnosed with a hearing loss. And finally after the doctor, the pediatrician diagnosed her, she said to me, don't worry, there are special schools for her. I hadn't even wrap my head around the diagnosis when already the bar was lowered for her entire life. I just couldn't even process it. And I didn't understand why we needed or she needed to go to special schools, I didn't understand why our world was suddenly going to change. It didn't make sense to me. And I decided at that very moment. Once I got her situated, I was going to fix whatever it took. But she was going to regular schools and having a regular life. She now has, not only did she go to a top girl school in New York, but she's just about to start her second IV school for her master's. And that was my idea of special but I don't think that's what the doctrine meant. But along the way, I realized that there were these artificial barriers in place that prevented people with hearing loss from succeeding, that made absolutely no sense at all. And they continue down doing this just about 20 years later, and they still make absolutely no sense. They're just artificial barriers that need to be removed.

Kyle Roed: 3:36

Absolutely. And I think that, you know, in the world of human resources, you know, we, a lot of times are the ones that can inadvertently put those barriers up through a policy or a requirement or a hiring practice. So as it relates to the kind of the workplace and the listeners of our podcast, what are a couple examples of barriers that just don't really make sense but but still exist today?

Janice Lintz: 4:08

I think this is the my number one thing that drives me absolutely crazy. So when people hire people, like access coordinators, or diversity, now they call them di coordinate, you know, di positions. When they want somebody with a disability, they always want someone with a physical disability that you can see the disability so that the person knows Oh no, we did hire someone who fits the D profile. So that means most of the DI people who have disabilities are either using a wheelchair, they're blind, or they use sign language. Because you can see the sign language you can't see a hearing aid quite the same way. You can see the wheelchair and you can see someone who is you know, using a cane. However, the vast majority of people with hearing loss have invisible disability. And they're excluded from positions because they can't be pointed to to show they have a disability. Even when you have sometimes you see this in museums a lot when they hire access coordinators. And they decide to hire, the vast majority of access coordinators use physical access, which is crazy because they don't have advisory boards. And they are making imagine somebody in a wheelchair making decisions about somebody with hearing loss. We would never ask one race to make decisions about another race. But every day in the disability world, we have somebody from one disability making a decision about another disability. But when they hire people with disabilities, if the person has a hearing loss, they must know sign language. Well, that makes absolutely no sense. Because of the 48 million people with some form of hearing loss. Less than 1% of people use sign language. So that means the vast majority of people with hearing loss can't get a position as an access coordinator, because they grew up not knowing sign language. So therefore, by default, all the access coordinators who know anything about hearing loss are deaf or blind, even if they have a hearing loss. They've been more connected to the deaf world because they learned sign language. That makes absolutely no sense. So therefore, the number of access coordinators or di people who are hard of hearing is so small, and it's all because of misperceptions. And I could go on about other misperceptions. I mean, there's a laundry list. I wrote an article about this for huffpost. But that is probably the one most irritating thing.

Kyle Roed: 6:46

I did not realize that 1% speak ASL.

Janice Lintz: 6:50

Yeah, so it's critical. And mind you. ASL is critical to the people who need it. I'm not advocating to eliminate it. But it's a very small population, it's just visible. And so the vast majority of people who need hearing access, don't use sign language. You know, when you think about it, 30% above age 65 have some form of hearing loss. If you're an older adult, who suddenly loses your hearing, the likelihood you're going to use sign language is unlikely, right? It's like learning a non flow language. Imagine at this age now learning French Yes, it's doable by heart. Right, right. All of us they the thought of going back and learning a language. They were like, yeah, you know, you have to be pretty diligent. And we're real traveler to really say, I'm going to learn another language, same for sign language. So it's not very common. And yet, the vast majority of hearing access is sine related. And there's no correlation. And that's because there is no organization in the country for children with hearing loss, a leading one, and the major hearing loss organization really doesn't lead the way it should lead. And so there's this vacuum of kind of no one doing anything. And sadly, there's no secretary of human rights in our country. Many countries have secretary of human rights. The US doesn't explain a lot of things in this country. There's no, there's no secretary of human rights. So there's no oversight. There is fractionalize agencies that all oversee the Americans with Disabilities Act. So you have the US Access Board, you have the Department of Justice, the Department of Transportation, city and state, but there's no overarching person in charge.

Kyle Roed: 8:39

Interesting, I hadn't, hadn't really thought about it. So as you look at like the like vocational rehabilitation agencies and some of these agencies, is there is that a gap that there is, you know, more of a focus on perceived disabilities and individuals that that have hearing loss and may need some support but aren't getting that is that is that what you've seen?

Janice Lintz: 9:05

So the vocational schools, so to speak, or places are for people with very severe disabilities, but the vast majority of people with disabilities, like in the hearing loss world, they don't need vocational, like my daughter went to an Ivy League school. And she's in two weeks starting another Ivy League school for her master's, right. She didn't need vocational and my daughter when you take out her hearing aids is profoundly deaf. So she has no hearing. What she needed was quality training within the school quality hearing aids. I think the entire industry needs to be disrupted. These quote teachers of the Deaf, that children with hearing loss is saddled with our stigmatizing they make no sense. What you need is to teach kids how to listen. If you want to teach kids how to listen. play the piano, you have to learn music right to play the piano. That's what we did. You learn to listen. The other thing that teacher for the Deaf does is they teach them to write. I don't know why you need a special person called teacher of the deaf to learn to write. We heard English teachers. And to me, that made no sense, right? Like, it's like, what are you teaching a child who doesn't hear, we just heard regular writing teachers. And you know, I wanted my child to be able to have the opportunity to go to an Ivy League school, she was capable of doing it. So we hired teachers who went IV or IV equivalent, because to me, that was the best way it was like, if you want to be, for example, a tennis player, you hire a tennis pro to teach you to play tennis, nobody thinks you can figure this out on your own. Right, right. Of course, there are people who are naturals, but for the most part, you hire a tennis pro to learn the same if you want to become really good at writing. And if you ever hear I lost the best way, hire English teachers and call them writing coaches. Not tutors, you don't have a deficiency, their coach, no different than the person learning to play tennis. Right? So when my daughter didn't go to a tutor, she went to a writing coach. Right? She is a fabulous writer.

Kyle Roed: 11:10

Yeah, absolutely. So it's, you know, it's interesting that, well, first of all, I can tell that you're not just gonna, you know, sit idly by and let things come your way. But

Janice Lintz: 11:21

no, that's never gonna happen to anything in life.

Kyle Roed: 11:25

Taking a shot here, I talked to a lot of people I've shot. I feel like I can make that read pretty confidently.

Janice Lintz: 11:32

So you didn't read the article about Ruth Ruth wrote about me, it's called reaching out to the Queen of England and in Forbes.

Kyle Roed: 11:39

No, I did not read that one. She told me about it, though. So yeah, yeah. So

Janice Lintz: 11:44

yeah, I'm somebody who, I will reach out to anyone and everyone to get the help I need

Kyle Roed: 11:49

perfect. And so but what I'm hearing is that, you know, disability, that part of the disability that you did not want your daughter to experience was this, the perception of, you know, being less than or being subjected to something that is, you know, just not going to be helpful in the scheme of things. So, how did you kind of determine what the best approach was to help your daughter? What was your were your process there to figure out the best way to help her succeed?

Janice Lintz: 12:22

You know, it's, it's very interesting. We traveled a lot as a family and I traveled a lot growing up and I am a voracious traveler, as you mentioned, I've been to 194 countries, territories and unrecognized nations, like, my passion in life is traveling. As I traveled, I was seeing access in other countries, bits and pieces, there wasn't a consistent and uniform approach to hearing access. But I would see him in lots of one off projects, that I felt like, you know, this person must have known somebody with a hearing loss, because, you know, you would go to Azerbaijan, and you would see an induction loop that enables a person with hearing loss to hear the speaker through the elevator in the Fairmont Hotel, right? I wouldn't see it anywhere else. I would just see it in the elevator, or the same Nigeria, in the Sheraton. And I started seeing these random one off things all over the world that I couldn't figure out, like, why or how, but what I started to do is take photographs of them and compile them into almost a library of access. And after a while, and when I would file them, I found them in topics, right? Okay, so I'd be like, the Nigeria folder would have the elevator topic, right. And then I would go and then if I was in another place, and I saw in London, the taxis that would go in the taxi. And again, one off projects. And so after a while, I started to see consistency across the world. And connect the dots and I saw things that other people didn't see, because I traveled so much, and so into everywhere. And so I have to while I created from this, I synthesize everything down into something that I call the three pronged approach to hearing access. And I realized that if every time if you want to reach the whole spectrum of people with hearing loss, you need three things, audio, visual and qualified interpretation. You need audio, bringing the sound to someone's hearing aids or cochlear implant, visual turning the sound into captions or some you know, visual, you know, depending on what it is, and then sign language. And if you had depending on where you are in the spectrum of hearing loss, if you had all three things, anytime there were sound, whether human or audio, you reached the full spectrum of hearing loss. And then I was able to take that idea and then apply it to every single location. And suddenly it became very clear there was a consistent approach to how hearing Rather than a scattershot approach, and so that is what I started become known for, because I was the first person to realize that hearing loss was, you know, before people would kind of do a menu, and they would pick and choose access. And when places didn't have access, and they didn't want you to realize they didn't have the access they needed, they would tell you about the wheelchairs, they offered the Braille they offered, you know, throat together everything, you know, just like a whole chicken soup type thing. And I was like, You know what, well, I really care about the access for my daughter, I only care about hearing access. So please tell me only the specific access she needs. And then suddenly, there'll be nothing. Well, there's this void. So creating this three pronged approach, and I can send you a link for your viewers, you know, your listeners to understand it, it really then made things very clear. And it's what allowed legislation to change because it seemed too complicated for people. And once I broke it down, and made it spoon feasible, that they could understand it and help write the National Park Service guidelines. People got it, and then it became easier, and it also became harder to avoid applying it. Because if you just applied two of the three, well, what about this part of the spectrum? Like what are those people doing? And so that's how I was able to get so much done and use that for my daughter.

Kyle Roed: 16:31

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Janice Lintz: 19:07

exactly, because it The problem was it and I just posted it into your chapter, you'll be able to now see it's Exhibit A, but when you can break it down into a visual way that people can understand it. It's much clearer, otherwise, it's a topic that's just too confusing, overwhelming. People like Oh, please, I have to learn something else. So I had to make it easy for people to understand.

Kyle Roed: 19:34

No, I love that. You know, it's interesting in just just a few years ago, we hired an individual who was hard of hearing in our IT department. And you know, it was an absolutely wonderful moment for the team because you know, we were doing something good and we were helping somebody out we gave this individual an internship. But figuring out how to help him be successful was a lot more work than I think we had initially expected, because there were different needs than we had assumed. At the beginning, you know, we figured that, you know, this specific job was help desk job. So we figured, well, this individual can't use the phone. But they can certainly use, you know, Chat Chat features, and they can work and help people and support the chat. But what we didn't take into account was the fact that well, just because they can chat doesn't necessarily mean that they're able to interpretate interpret what this individual needs. And sometimes there's some, there's like, people that don't understand even what's going on, or what they're asking for, and you do have to call them and figure that out. So it, it became a little bit challenging. So what we initially thought that individual needed was not what they actually needed. At the end, we had to figure out some speak to text, we had to do some training with this individual. And then we also had to figure out how to make sure that the the manager could actually communicate, and set expectations in a way that made sense. And it was something that was very challenging for us, kind of surprisingly, so. But had we, I'm looking at this right now have we had this approach, we would have checked these boxes upfront. So thank you for putting that out there, we'll have that in the show notes for anybody that that has any interest.

Janice Lintz: 21:14

Seek out that's a perfect, so that's a perfect example. So for that person, first off, usually when companies, you know, as part of before, even hiring people, having that built into the system, and working with a consultant to understand makes it easier, but for example, somebody with a hearing loss can use a phone, depending on how profound their hearing loss is. But one, they need to make sure that they've had their hearing checked at their hearing aids if they use hearing aids work, and that it has a telecoil to work with the telephone. So sometimes that's the first place to start. Second, right, because if they have a hearing aid with a telecoil, and depending on where their hearing loss is, they should be able to use a telephone. But if they don't have the telecoil in their hearing aid, it's not going to work with the phone. So you have to start with the gets the basics, then you then there are phone systems called through, you get cold capital captioned telephone, where they can do with and they use an assistant. And now there are other dragon profiles. So there are other ways of doing things. But it's having a very earnest conversation. And sometimes sadly, the person with hearing loss may not understand even what they need. So for the best way to explain this is people assume if you're wearing hearing aids, you know exactly what you need. But I always try to explain I have a cell phone. I don't necessarily know everything, how it works on my cell phone, right? When you pick it up. I'm curious. I'm like, I don't know about you. I know, well, you're an HR maybe or it, maybe you do, but I've never read the instruction booklet of my cell phone. I'm not even sure there is an instruction booklet, maybe something online, but right now you haven't either. So that's the same with hearing aids, so people don't necessarily know. And that's why it's helpful when the company does some of the legwork and doesn't assume they know and has access and does discusses. Okay, where are the issues? What are the options and working with consultants to see how to alleviate. So it's the same type of consultants, you know, when people, there are companies where people's back start to hurt, and they bring in back chiropractors to figure out what are the best chairs for their client, you know, their employees, it's the same type of thing. Except this always seems like an extra thing. Except people with disabilities who've worked are very company loyal. They don't move around the same way other people do. They like and they work hard, but it's just knowing what they need and helping to make it a welcoming environment. So for example, conference rooms are perfect example. People always put in the wheelchair access, right? nobody's been hired and the bathroom is already accessible. There are places for wheelchair access, right? It's already built in. Not the same for hearing loss. So this the same induction loop technology that allows a person with a hearing aid or hopefully implant to hear directly in their ear can be built right into conference rooms. So it's right there. You build it in it's not complicated. The person sees the sign on the outside the door that says it's welcoming plus this the sign on the inside of conference room. And then not only do they feel welcome, they also feel like they can ask for access they need and access doesn't necessarily need expensive sometimes it's like the same way an employee might need grammerly right? People who can't spell well the grammar late because nobody wants to receive emails with million spelling check if you give an employee Grammarly and suddenly like oh my god that the errors are gone, right? That's like a simple tool fix. That's what many of these other tools are simple fixes. But people have to feel comfortable asking for the access and the problem is people are are afraid to ask for the access because they don't want to become that employee. They don't want to be difficult. They don't want to be fired. They don't want to not get promoted, they're afraid if they ask for something, and then they need to go to a client and the client doesn't have it does that mean they can't go? So it becomes really tricky and dicey of people afraid to ask the when the access is built in, like in the conference room with the signs up, it says, we welcome people we want you to ask, our goal is to make you successful, because you will then be a successful employee and help us be successful.

Kyle Roed: 25:34

Right. 100%. And I think it's similar to me, as you look at things like just signaling that you are an inclusive place to work is as important as some of the things that you do to be inclusive, right? And because a lot of times, yeah, you don't know what accommodations someone might need to be successful, or what barriers they may have in their way, most of those barriers are probably hidden, for most people, or part of their personal lives or something that is not something they're comfortable sharing at work. So if I mean, if they aren't telling you, then you're not going to make it the best experience that you can form. And I think about it, I had a really interesting conversation with a podcast guest a few, a few episodes back, Steve yucca Valley, and we were talking about pronouns you know, in in a similar context where the use of pronouns in front or behind your name, it doesn't necessarily mean that you're trying to explain to somebody, what pronouns you want to use, in my role, a lot of it is just communicating that you are inclusive, and then you're open to individuals that have maybe a non standard pronoun around their name. And so for me, that was a little bit of a revelatory moment, like, Oh, yeah, you know, I hadn't really thought about that. But just by telling people that I'm open minded. Now, I'm a much more inclusive employer. This is very similar, in my opinion, and a great way to not only make your workplace better for people hard of hearing, but just make your workplace better period. So

Janice Lintz: 27:11

yeah, I have to say, just so you know, this is out of my realm, but on the pronouns, the thing that I don't really understand about that is, first off, there are a lot of people who maybe their names are not as familiar to us, right? Right. Nothing with sexual orientation. But if they have a name, that I'm not familiar, what it's not traditionally associated, like, let's say, Robert, right, traditionally could be a man's name. But if it's not as clear, sometimes I'm not sure, if I'm going to be dealing with, I don't know how to dress somebody. So for me, that pronoun is very helpful to guide me so that I don't misstep. And, you know, offend someone inadvertently? Absolutely. Yeah. just felt like thinking about the other person, right? And that's, you know, when you provide the pronouns, it's about thinking about another person, how can you make them more comfortable? It's not just about you, it's about making them more comfortable. The same with disability access. Right?

Kyle Roed: 28:14

Right. I agree. 100%. So and I think the other thing that you hit on that, you know, that I think most HR people want to do their best, but it's something in the ADA that and that's the interactive process where it's not really that complicated, the ADA basically just says, Hey, you just need to supply an accommodation if someone asked for it. And the interactive process is basically, hey, have a human conversation with somebody and figure out what they actually need, and do it in a way that's respectful and involves all parties so that you can come to a win win solution, that's really all the interactive process is. But you have to open that door and you have to, you have to make sure that you communicate that to your employees. And you have to be really mindful that any accommodation that occurs, doesn't create a some sort of a stigma or make people feel like they shouldn't be asking for it. I mean, it's, it's one of the more important things that I think we can do as employers is to is to be very, very respectful and treat people like humans, I mean, you know, give them the support they need and, and be open to providing it.

Janice Lintz: 29:26

It's part of the same as customer service, right? If you focus on the end user of anything, you will always be successful, whether it's a customer or other employee. And I think sometimes that's where people get lost, it becomes a tick the box and they don't think about it, it's like, okay, we just got to get this done. But if you focus on the end user of what does the employee it's, they're not the perceptions. They're asking for the most expensive lavish thing possible. But what they're doing is they're not they're trying to figure out they want to function They want something with the least stigmatizing device. Because they don't want to stand out, they want to blend just like everybody else. Nobody wants to be have this odd thing. And so it's not that complicated. I think people will lie on a lot of times vendors, vendors sell what they generates the highest profit and easiest to install. And so it's important to not rely on just a vendor, but hire a consultant who can help you who's not profiting, who doesn't have this inherent conflict of interest. Because otherwise, you're not necessarily going to get the right thing. It's kind of if this is the item they sell, and they don't sell the better item for you, they're not going to tell you about it. And yet, over and over, I see companies relying on vendors saying, what should you What should we install, they'll put out instead of RFPs requests, they were put out requests for proposals? Well, those are kind of ridiculous, because people what you're asking people to work for free to do a consultants job, and then they need to build into it. And then when you actually do the bidding the RFP, then you want to make sure you're bidding apples to apples. And so there's this problem where companies don't want to pay for consultants, I wrote an article about this as well. But it's kind of, you're not going to get you get what you pay for. Right. It's like we've all seen the means with an electric outlet in the sink. You know, when this person says like, I didn't want the, the ego never put on beige, you know, well beige outlet on a white wall. But meanwhile, it's inside the sink. Right?

Kyle Roed: 31:41

Right, right.

Janice Lintz: 31:43

I mean, this is like you get what you're paying for. And but somehow the first place to slash is disability, and they think they don't have to. But you know, what people don't realize is when they hire people disabilities, no, they are loyal employees. And they work super hard. You know, they don't realize there's an expense attached to other employees who don't deliver,

Kyle Roed: 32:04

right, right.

Janice Lintz: 32:07

And I'm like those costs of, you know, the jerky employee who may not have a disability but doesn't deliver. I think you're paying more of an expense there than the person who may have a disability who may need an accommodation. But we're super hard, right?

Kyle Roed: 32:25

I agree 100%. And in fact, I was asked this question a few weeks ago about the cost of an accommodation, a previous experience that I had with an employee and the accommodation was simply he needed a little clicker, like a little counter, just to make sure that he was hitting the hourly goal for the product that he was producing. And this little clicker was enough for him to just stay on track. And this individual happened to be neuro diverse, and just needed a little bit of additional kind of gamification of the workload to keep him engaged. And that that was it. But once we got on that little clicker, he started pumping out product, just like right, and it was like without fail exactly when we needed it, because it was, it had been systemized and it fit his needs. And so somebody asked me, well, how much did that clicker cost? And I said, the question isn't, how much did it cost? The question is, how much more money did I make after I handed that clicker to that individual? Exactly. You can't eat like, I mean, if I were to put $1 figure on, I was making 1000s of dollars more on a regular basis, just by I don't know how much the thing cost, I don't care. But it's Yeah, having that, you know, that individual who showed up every day, really never had a bad thing to say about the work, even though it wasn't the most glamorous thing in the world, but was happy and productive and made honestly made it a better place to work because people liked him. You know, I mean, it's just like, it was it was such a wonderful wind and such a boat in such a small gesture. But the only reason that we did it is because we were open minded enough to give somebody an opportunity and to listen to what they needed. That's it. Thought is So

Janice Lintz: 34:09

absolutely, and a lot of companies on the neuro diverse are starting to realize that neuro diverse is like a huge benefit for certain jobs, that sometimes very repetitive jobs and making connections, seeing things that other people don't see. And there was just an article in valleyfair, about somebody working on, you know, the COVID and making connections and he was Nara diverse, and he saw things other people didn't see. And I think what we're learning is that people don't learn the same, you know, they learn differently. And rather than thinking about learning as vertical, we need to think about learning as horizontal and if we just look at people learning different and have different skill sets and then putting people working to their strengths, we get better employees. And so for people with hearing loss, you know, there are advantages. You know, I will tell you there was a senator who hired some with hearing loss to libery on the Senate floor. I remember was Senator congressmember because she was really good at lip reading. And she was able to tell what was happening. And other people were saying, right, you gotta you know, that's

Kyle Roed: 35:31

genius.

Janice Lintz: 35:31

What's your skill set? It was really, really genius. Yeah, she's, she's now gone on to move up. I won't say who it is. But she's gone up to move up politics. And you know, just really fast thing. I just totally forgot about that.

Kyle Roed: 35:44

So that's definitely a signature and very niche skill. But I could see how that could come in handy.

Janice Lintz: 35:51

Yeah, the Daily Mail uses people who read you know, when that whenever the royal family or an event, they always do reproduce, to say, to see what they're saying between amongst themselves.

Kyle Roed: 36:02

I just had a moment. I thought, that sounds like something that patriots would do. I don't know if your past that's why they're always covering their mouths, I suppose.

Janice Lintz: 36:13

I am 100% sure if I'm not a sports fan, but if they're doing that they are they are covering too, because people hire lip readers.

Kyle Roed: 36:21

So there you go. Now I'm just making the connection. Oh, that's that thing. You know, now I'm putting two and two together. Okay. Oh, you never realized that's why they cover math. I guess I had an assumption, but I hadn't explicitly thought about it. You know, I guess I was, I don't know, you know, thinking maybe they're just trying to make sure they can hear in the microphone with all the noise around. But yeah, lip reading. Yeah. Okay.

Janice Lintz: 36:42

They're making sure nobody can lip read you. If you read the Daily Mail. And every time there's a royal event, you'll always see. And the lip reader said about what they saw on the on the video. Like,

Kyle Roed: 36:53

that's awesome. So I want to talk just for a second here about this, this technology, because I think this is really fascinating. And an example of, you know, there are so many innovations in this world that we need to be open minded to that as we're working with individuals that may have a barrier or need some accommodation. So tell me a little bit about these listening systems. And you mentioned this induction loop. I'm just curious to learn how, how does this work?

Janice Lintz: 37:22

Well, first off, there are three different types of systems. There's an infrared, assistive listening system, and induction loop. The problem with the first two is they require a person to wear a device around their neck or on their head. Nobody wants to wear being that person. And so I always roll those out the infrared is point of light, where you need to be, you have a receiver the size of a deck of cards, and there's a little clear bubble and it receives a signal when it's facing the emitter. The infrared is not used outdoors because of the light. radio frequency can be used outdoors. Because it's not relying on light. As you can imagine sunlight would interfere with receiving the signal. But both of them are stigmatizing. The advantage the induction loop has is it could be used indoors or outdoors. It doesn't require wearing a device. If you just flip the switch on your hearing aids or cochlear implant, and the telecoil electromagnetically receives the signal. What's wonderful about that is one you don't have to maintain devices, you may need to have a few for people who don't have a hearing aid or cochlear implant whoever mild, but it reduces the amount of vices reduces the amount of charging and replacing batteries reduces breakage, because people drop them, swing them do what all sorts of things to them. People who depending on the in an office don't want other people to necessarily know they have a hearing loss. They feel very stigmatized. You don't have to go fetch it, someone doesn't have to be maintaining it, it's just so much easier to just switch flip a switch. So that's why induction loops are the preferred system. Also in transient settings. Let's say Amtrak uses induction loops. Because when you're buying a ticket, you can hand out devices because you'll never see them again, right? And in a COVID world. Nobody wants to put on anything on their head or in their ear that touched somebody else. So imagine you're wearing people can't see it, but you're wearing a headset. Imagine if I took your headset, right? I took my headset and I cleaned it and I said here put this in your ear. Would you want to put that in your ear? No thanks. If I said it, right, right. You'd be like No way. I but I cleaned it. No, I cleaned it. I used alcohol really clean and you're like, that's okay. It's been in your era like not really that's like people with hearing loss. Feel the same Way, no one wants to stick, they don't really trust the people's cleaning skills in a COVID world, your ears are a portal, like it's the other system, the induction loop is the preferred system. It's been around since 1978. The reason Bluetooth doesn't work as a great system is it burns through hearing aid batteries, which are super costly, their connectivity issues. So if you've ever had problems like connecting your air pods to your phone, and you're opening and pressing the button, that's a connectivity issue. That's one thing when you're using a headset, it's another thing when you need to hear you electromagnetic II there's no connection issues. So that's why induction loops are the preferred assistive listening system.

Kyle Roed: 40:44

Got it. So great example of a technology that's not not stigmatizing. And now that I'm looking at this document, and I've seen this sign now I yeah, I think I've seen it here and there. But it's not so you located. I'm an Iowa So, you know,

Janice Lintz: 41:01

are you aware university? Yep. Yep. And so it said I in the classrooms in Iowa University, it's there. I'm not familiar with any museums they have. But if you go over a state to Indiana, it's in the Indiana State Museum. It's in in Minneapolis, it's in the Mill City Museum, the walker museum. So every time you see that ear with the T symbol when you fly in and out of Detroit, you see it in delta. Anytime you see the ear with the T it means induction loop and then just that's what you're telling people flip the switch.

Kyle Roed: 41:36

Absolutely interesting. So great example of accommodation that whether we look at that for our workplace, or we just make sure that we are aware of that as an opportunity for a future accommodation, you know, great content and really appreciate you raising awareness there and in all the advocacy so want to switch gears and run through the rebel HR flash round. All right, three quick questions. Are you ready to go? Ready to go All right, here we go. Question number one, what is your favorite people book?

Janice Lintz: 42:07

My favorite people book is a book I was just featured in called tell her she can't inspiring stories of unstoppable women. It's a great book of incredible women. I mean, I am in the book, but incredible women. If you ever think there's something you can't do read this book, and there's no way you will be so charged up. I mean, the stories, I'm really humbled to be included in this because the stories are just unbelievable.

Kyle Roed: 42:35

That's awesome. And congratulations for being featured. So thank you. Alright, question number two, Who should we be listening to?

Janice Lintz: 42:44

So I believe in going to lectures, my favorite thing is not a particular person. But if whatever city you're in, people are constantly coming through on book tours, or, you know, this isn't a post COVID world pre COVID worlds where it could be still in your town. But go to lectures where smart people are think are speaking. And it doesn't matter if it's in your wheelhouse or swim lane. I've gone to lectures on the most random things, to hear how other people affected change. So I've gone to, you know, conferences at john hopkins on sex trafficking, I went to a climate change, which doesn't seem like in my wheelhouse, but it is because I understood how people affected change. So for example, I recently worked with Senator Warren's office who introduced the over the counter hearing aid failed, which present fine to sign the executive order. I'm the person behind that bill, I approached her at a lecture on credit card monopolies, asking her how to break the hearing aid oligopoly. And so people always thought the hearing aid market because the issue was a health care or ADA issue. And I realized it was an oligopoly issue and the best person to approach was Senator Warren. And so by going to a credit card lecture, I was able to break that and so you really just want to find smart people and you can always figure out an angle to attack your issue.

Kyle Roed: 44:17

I love that. Yeah, it's like the idea of the bank drive thru that came from fast food right?

Janice Lintz: 44:23

I did not know that but that's brilliant.

Kyle Roed: 44:25

I can't remember which guy it was but I think maybe the Bank of America CEO or something but he got the idea from Drive Thru McDonald's. And then

Janice Lintz: 44:33

I did not really go that's a fascinating I love that. I

Kyle Roed: 44:37

love it. All right, last question. How can our listeners connect with you?

Janice Lintz: 44:41

They can connect with me on my advocacy work at Janice che and ice lens Li n Tz calm. And my consulting work is hearing access.com and of course I'm also on LinkedIn.

Kyle Roed: 44:55

Perfect and we will have all that information in the show notes. So I encourage everybody to Take a look. And if you take anything away from this conversation, it's just all about making sure that you understand what people actually need, and trying to eliminate barriers for success within your workplaces. If we all do that, I think this will be a better place. Janice, thank you for all your work, and advocacy.

Janice Lintz: 45:18

Thank you so much for having me. Thanks.

Kyle Roed: 45:21

All right. That does it for the rebel HR podcast. big thank you to our guests. Follow us on Facebook at rebel HR podcast, Twitter, at rebel HR guy, or see our website at rebel human resources.com. The views and opinions expressed by rebel HR podcast Are those the authors and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any of the organizations that we represent. No animals were harmed during the filming of this podcast. Maybe